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#377576 - 02/28/08 03:12 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
EFRAIN Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 193
Loc: Paterson, NJ USA
Honestly guys I never expected this post I posted to go on for so long and get where it is with all sorts of discusions lol Shyt some of these discussion could be made into a new post lol...it's crazy and it's still going lol

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#377577 - 02/28/08 03:43 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Your training is some of the best iv seen in TKD.
Though its still not as harcore as is made out Military TKD was IMO.From the claims about it.
I dont mean hardcore as just in beating the crap either.



What do you mean by hardcore then?

Quote:

I would say thats a big influence on that training yet it will be claimed TKD was always like that.



Actually, face losing or not.. we were training similar to how you see in the video way before the term MMA had even been heard of.. yes, i guess we can pick up a few good pointers from current MMA, but it doesnt chnage the fact we trained like that before.. anything that can make it better is just a good thing IMO.

Quote:

Is that how its claimed they trained,like that footage?



How who claimed what?

Quote:

I would prefer grappling with the idea of striking or striking with the idea of grappling.



that would be more accurate yes.

Quote:

Being told over and over again it does and that I must not be doing it right or training it right has made it loose face to me.I feel like saying 'No its not all my fault''.



Its not, I feel the same, the only difference is I ry to prove that wrong.. but can only do so in my school as I dont control the rest of the TKD world!

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377578 - 02/28/08 03:44 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Stuart, nice video. I think you and I could easily train at each other's school. I seen many drills we do as well. You are one person I would love to get together and sit down to compare our training and exchange ideas. Very nice.




That would be cool, for sure. Still, for now, theres alway email!

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377579 - 02/28/08 03:45 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: MattJ]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Nice video, Stuart. I always enjoy seeing those. Looks like good training at your school.




Cheers Matt. Trainings fun yes and we like to think its decent (well, at least I hope it is).

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377580 - 02/28/08 05:45 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Stuart and I have similar training at our schools. I have the luxury that my Instructor also trains MMA outside of our school and fights in the MFC and trains at Pro Camp with the likes of UFC's Jason MacDonald; many of these skills are worked into our curriculum. No matter how complete our training gets with everything from stand up to takedown to ground and pound, I can say 100% we do not train MMA, at least not in the terms that MMA fighters do.

We've gone pretty hard but not as hard as they do. A lot of fancier techniques are put aside when becoming a MMA fighter and basics are used, especially when it comes to jujitsu as you are punching more. The training is tougher and more demanding and I honestly believe only certain people have this mentality to do it. We also have a MMA fighting team that my Instructor trains others in addition to his training with about 4 other fighters that also compete for the MFC and King of the Cage. I'm welcome to join these sessions but this training is during the day while I work though earlier in its creation I did attend a Saturday class but again wasn't as extreme as being done now.

TKD is not MMA; I don't think we should confuse the two. TKD however can and for myself and Stuart, have all of the aspects required in a fighting system.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377581 - 02/28/08 06:45 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
EvenRats Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 75
Quote:

Your training is some of the best iv seen in TKD.
Though its still not as harcore as is made out Military TKD was IMO.From the claims about it.
I dont mean hardcore as just in beating the crap either.
And in terms of the MMA/NHB or all in type training in moments,it looks ok,but not to the level of a good MMA/NHB or all in place.IMHO.
I would say thats a big influence on that training yet it will be claimed TKD was always like that.
That will loose its face too.




You do realize MMA is more of a sport right? As in with a set of rules and high level of competition. The purpose of training Taekwon-Do is to learn how to defend yourself against aggression. If you really want to bring your Tk-D to "MMA/NHB level" then I suggest you find a school that specializes in that. As in, less historical cirriculum, more fighting.
Nobody who trains "Martial art X" crossed over with "Martial Y" magically wakes up and fights MMA. You have to train in that specific environment.

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#377582 - 02/28/08 07:24 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EvenRats]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Agreed.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#377583 - 02/28/08 07:49 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

TKD is not MMA; I don't think we should confuse the two. TKD however can and for myself and Stuart, have all of the aspects required in a fighting system.




Dereck:
Sir, please understand that TKD was originally developed as a modern MMA. It did in fact takes aspects of various MAs & fighting systems of the time & combine them into a system of SD that was to be for military SD.
Now of course, that is not to be confused with what many today conceive MMA as being. Now the term modern is used to then describe a period being the 50s & 6os, ending for the most part by the early 70s.
Kindly also include me in with you & Mr. Anslow, as it has served the same purpose for me.

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#377584 - 02/29/08 12:38 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
badachagi Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 62
Quote:

Quote:

TKD is not MMA; I don't think we should confuse the two. TKD however can and for myself and Stuart, have all of the aspects required in a fighting system.




Dereck:
Sir, please understand that TKD was originally developed as a modern MMA. It did in fact takes aspects of various MAs & fighting systems of the time & combine them into a system of SD that was to be for military SD.
Now of course, that is not to be confused with what many today conceive MMA as being. Now the term modern is used to then describe a period being the 50s & 6os, ending for the most part by the early 70s.
Kindly also include me in with you & Mr. Anslow, as it has served the same purpose for me.




I'm going to nit-pick here.

ITFUnity, I have seen you make this point a number of times, but I'd like to suggest that your insistence on calling TKD a "mixed martial art" is misleading. Not deliberately or maliciously misleading, but misleading nonetheless.

I agree with your points regarding TKD having incorporated various aspects of other systems to create a form of SD for the military, thus making it "mixed" in that sense. I also take note that you concede that when you use that term, you do not mean it as people today who use that term (i.e. the sport exemplified by UFC, Pride, etc).

The fact is that the vast majority of people today use the term "MMA" to mean "the combative sport usually fought in a cage or octagon that involves elements of grappling, wrestling, submissions, kicks, punches, and takedowns that originated with the Ultimte Fighting Championships". In fact, I believe it was Dana White and the organizers of the UFC who first started using the term "mixed martial arts". So to label TKD as "MMA" conflicts with the de facto accepted meaning that 99% of the rest of the people who use that term take it to mean. In fact, they would say the very notion of TKD being an MMA is a contradiction.

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#377585 - 02/29/08 01:22 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
More aggression.
Going on for longer.I noticed a five second ground rule They look too compliant.
Well, I cant answer without sounding critical of that training or those students and I dont want it to go like that so I dont know how to say what I mean if im honest.It did not look hardcore enough for me to go with the claims of how TKD was trained in the military.
Who claimed?
Iv heard lots claim the military style was this or that.By ''they'' I mean people who realy stick up for TKD and wont have a bad word against it.

Do you mean your group or TKD in general have always trained like that?
Im sceptical TKD was originaly trained like that.
If your group,Fair enough.

The thing that does not make sense is that if the word MMA comes up,like IT haS,that method of training is degraded as sport,like it has.Agreed yes.
Yet that footage is MMA type training yet its said thats good and its how its supposed to be trained or how it was trained.
So it does not make sense.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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