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#377556 - 02/27/08 01:59 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EvenRats]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Quote:



One of my instructors once told me that TKD-fighters back then were very stiff and lacked the athleticism that today's high flying kickers and punchers possessed. But they were well conditioned to the point where every kick and punch was brutal. Afterall, it was developed for use in the military.




This is partially correct. Everyone was kind of stiff comapred to today but the ones who were more stiff were not the ITF style practitioners but rather the TSD and KSD practitioners who were karate like. The ITF style people were using many different techniques and trying to push the envelope.

The the people who became the eventual WTF founders used two techniques when sparring a front snap kick and a reverse punch that was it. It was easy for the ITF sparring with side kicks and revesre heel kicks and turning kicks etc.

Just a note;

These comments and others are not meant as comments about todays martial artists. This is simply historical information that I have been informed about and its has nothing really to do with the abilities (positive or negative) of today's Tae Kwon Doists


Edited by flynch (02/27/08 02:20 PM)

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#377557 - 02/27/08 02:12 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
GM CK Choi does those splits cold and he can do the high twisting kick cold as well.

Its pretty cool to watch

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#377558 - 02/27/08 02:16 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Yes its interesting.I would like to know does anyone practice this way?As hardcore as is made out.If TKD people are to claim its got it all or enough, why dont they just get training footage or enter something and then it would be done and dusted.No discussion.
Every one would shut up.We could all go and train like that and not have to look elsewhere.

Also,if they were training in a good,solid.way,like I said, it would resemble how Thai boxers train and if they had good grappling it would resemble good MMA/NHB training,and again,there would be no discussion because MMA and TKD would of be the same thing.And any footage or training not resembling that would not be TKD.And anyone dissmissing MMA/NHB training would be dismissing good TKD training.

Im interested in the modern MMA statement that comes up alot.
What is the breakdown of this and were can they be seen,please?
Its a korean take on Karate and korean arts.Thats a given.Referencing modern science.
Iv seen people say it took from Judo.Where is this because iv not seen TKD resembling Judo or its training methods..Of course there are locks,throws and sweeps.Is this that influence?If so that influence has definitly lost its way.
We can say that yes,if it does not resemble Judo in those Judo influenced moments?
Iv heard it took from boxing (?),though again,Iv not seen much that resembled quality boxing or the training boxers they do.
What else?

I see your point about Larry Holmes ITFUNITY.Though ,IMO,its different in many ways.
For a start I can watch Larry holmes or see if what he does works and prove it or have it proven many times over.And in the context of this thread boxing,or Larry Holmes makes no claims beyond being great for fist fighting.
I will fold on that as it has no refence on me today or my training if I cant see it and be influenced by his tactics or techniques.
Fair enough he must of been a good fighter and effective.


Edited by matxtx (02/27/08 02:26 PM)
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#377559 - 02/27/08 02:17 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Quote:



Do you personally think that the ITF "now" follows this hard core system? Or in your travels have you found that the ITF much like the WTF and other factions follow similar endurance and physicalness?




I think it will always depend on the school. I personnaly do not think that there are many schools that follow the hard core trainning system. It seems every time I ask why not the comment I get is that the new trainning system is scientifically more advanced and they don't have to train hard like the old masters used to.

I am still not totally clear on what that means.

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#377560 - 02/27/08 04:02 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Agreed Flynch. I would say the majority of schools in just about every martial art today train for the people of today that includes children to juniors to adults to seniors. It is readily accessible and perhaps watered down to allow everybody to train. I think we would all be hard pressed to find a school to the likes of what we've read or are led to believe by many. Don't get me wrong, this does not discount the extra effort that people put into their training nor challenging themselves to get better which is all positive.

I read from ITFunity about his extensive 30 of training and travels and I wanted to know what he's found as I'm only 5.5 years into this and don't have as extensive knowledge to this fact as he may be able to shed light. I suspect he has found the same but it is nice to hear from others on this matter.

I also agree that we don't need to train like those in the past did as we are not warriors or in the military and to be honest I don't think that many would last. I know my TKD is easier then the TKD that my Instructor took under a South Korean Master that was from the military. The failure rate was high and the training was very demanding. However with that said my Instructor has pointed out that today's training has allowed many to obtain high levels due to the better understanding of the techniques as well as how it is taught as well as not having to deal with the language barrier. We can ask questions and it made to understand what is being taught and expected then when he trained and was told "no, wrong" and then having to figure it out on his own until he heard "correct".
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#377561 - 02/27/08 04:52 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
I always thought it was just different now. If I am to beleive what I have been told then Tae Kwon Do trainning was a part of one's military service. It was a full time job. I have the specifics but basically it involved Tae Kwon Do trainning several hours in the morning and several hours in the evening six to seven days a week. Combine this with a lot of jogging and you have people who were just at a different level than most of us.

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#377562 - 02/27/08 08:30 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:


Do you personally think that the ITF "now" follows this hard core system? Or in your travels have you found that the ITF much like the WTF and other factions follow similar endurance and physicalness?




No they dont!
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"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377563 - 02/27/08 08:33 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: flynch]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

I think it will always depend on the school.



I agree.. but in the main, its still a no!

Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377564 - 02/27/08 08:39 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Yes its interesting.I would like to know does anyone practice this way?



Yes, some do


Quote:

If TKD people are to claim its got it all or enough,



we/I dont claim that, we recognise its short comings and take measures to correct them

Quote:

why dont they just get training footage or enter something and then it would be done and dusted.No discussion.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9K6ljoy..._Active_01.html

Quote:

Also,if they were training in a good,solid.way,like I said, it would resemble how Thai boxers train



No it wouldnt

Quote:

and if they had good grappling it would resemble good MMA/NHB training,and again,there would be no discussion because MMA and TKD would of be the same thing.



Hmm... as long as someone acknowledged we were doing "all in" traditional sparring before the term "MMA" was even heard of!

Quote:

Iv seen people say it took from Judo.Where is this because iv not seen TKD resembling Judo or its training methods..



Many of the pioneers were judo (Yudo) black belts. Throws are outlined in the TKD manuals by Gen Choi.

Quote:

Of course there are locks,throws and sweeps.Is this that influence?



yes, that and hapkido

Quote:

If so that influence has definitly lost its way.



Agreed

Quote:

We can say that yes,if it does not resemble Judo in those Judo influenced moments?



It does when taught properly.


Stuart
_________________________
"Ch'ang Hon Taekwon-do Hae Sul"

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#377565 - 02/27/08 08:46 PM Re: Taekwonddiscussio loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Nice video, Stuart. I always enjoy seeing those. Looks like good training at your school.
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