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#377516 - 02/25/08 12:13 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EvenRats]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

Actually EvenRats, I said TK-D can be considered a modern MMA, that was developed in the Korean military by fighters from all kinds of systems for SD. Of course back then, 1950 & 60s, there was no UFC or the many cage matches that are popular today.



ITFunity, I meant "TKD" being used as an umbrella term. And you're right, "Taekwon-do" can be considered modern MMA. But theres a general lack of instructors who actually go through the entire cirriculum and in-depth nature of fighting systems such as groundfighting and submissions.




Sorry, no problem!

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#377517 - 02/25/08 12:18 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Good questions and one I've not really given much thought to so will now in this post. I cannot say that we emphasize any more on feet then hands and perhaps do more with our hands as well.

Remember, it is mostly the outsiders that see TKD as a kicking art and rightly or wrongly so due to what they see from the Olympics and such. And unfortunately there are schools that emphasize this; probably more then we'd like to admit. What it is though is that TKD's kicking stands out regardless of how much hands are used. The kicking of TKD (umbrella again) is fast and can be very flashy and what is remembered and expected; hence a kicking art.




Fair enuf! Now if you knew history more or were interested in how history got us to where we are & why, then you may have more info on this. It was primarily the JiDo Kwan who were responsible for much of what eventually became the present day Olympic rules. Note the JiDo Kwan, not the Oh Do Kwan.

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#377518 - 02/25/08 12:27 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Unfortunately ITF I think if you put the people that knew the history on one side and those that new very little to none on the other side; the side with the knowledge would be greatly out numbered. And I don't think knowing the history changes or makes me better understand the context of this thread.




Sorry you don't see it. I can only try to explain it, I can't comprehend it for you. Sorry I can't do a better job of communicating it.
However having knowledge in my book, is not a bad thing, even if others don't have it or they are far outweighed those that don't.

Quote:

I don't need to know history to use the application. Knowing the history doesn't make the application better. Repeatedly training the application makes the application better and that is what I train for. I don't need to know the history of the kick/punch I just want to know how to kick/punch; and people were kicking and punching since the dawn of time and they did not need to know the history of it they just had to make sure it worked.




You are 100% right. However, I never said it did, not did I ever relay anything that could be remotely thought of as to do same.

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#377519 - 02/25/08 12:35 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Dereck]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I'm glad that nobody takes offense to my comments as that is just my personal opinion and each is entitled to it. For the records, if I received the training from my same Instructor who taught the exact same curriculum, I couldn't care a less if it was called TKD or called joe's martial arts; remember, my training doesn't seem to fit the majority of TKD schools. Yes we are influenced heavily by TKD and I like a lot of what it can teach however I've seen more and more it actually comes down to "who" is teaching it that makes the difference.




It sounds like you have a great instructor & are very happy. It also seems like your school emphasizes, among other things, SD. Unfortuantely that is not the same with many schools calling themselves TKD. I have trained with the founder directly, many of his top students, read his books so many times, that some of it is created to memory. In my longtime pursuit to learn my Art, I have been to many parts of the world. I can tell you that TKD does deserve its poor reputation, from my limited experiences. Also there are many ITF schools & those calling themselves ITF schools that have contributed to this as well.

Quote:

I also agree with an earlier comment of ITF, TKD is not losing its popularity as it is probably the most taught martial art there is. Is it losing face, to some maybe but to the majority that doesn't know better, I highly doubt it. And if it is then that will be for the better as then perhaps those teaching will look at what they are teaching and start teaching all of it; that can only be a positive.



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#377520 - 02/25/08 12:39 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

One of the things people forget is that TKD & its parent art Karate were really designed to defend against non-trained people. Stuart




It was designed as a military SD system, obviously to be used against other trained militaries, I would assume.

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#377521 - 02/25/08 12:44 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

For those who dont know, to gain greater popularity TKD toured the world doing demo's (50's/60's), after the demo, any member of the demo squad was open to be challenged and they often were, from what Ive heard they rarely lost. Whats more impressive is that it was just a couple of fighters trained up for this, but ANY of the demo squad members and when you consider they were in countries like Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia etc. it shows TKD was a decent art and could stand toe to toe with any other arts of the time. Stuart




This did occur, but it was the 60s & 70s, not the 50s. In the 50s, 1959 to be exact, they toured Vietnam & Taiwan, the 1st time ever TKD was exhibited abroad.

The challenge matches were often done by now GM kong Yong Il, who is reported to have gone 127-0. I challenged him to the 128th fight, but he refused! He probably knew he would destroy me! I quickly claimed the win by default!

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#377522 - 02/25/08 12:47 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: StuartA]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

If that, as you suggest, makes a TKDist reconsider how they train then it is good.



Quite agree Stuart




Of course. Realism in your training can only open your eyes

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#377523 - 02/25/08 01:23 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: von1]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Quote:

matxtx

On some level I agree with you but I must ask the question, does your TKD school not train for grapple type situations and did you have to seek this training outside of TKD? This is where I have bumped heads with you before because we train for grappling and against it too. So is it all of TKD or is it just certain schools that you refer to when you say TKD does not match up.




There is some grappling I have been shown In TKD though its mainly throws and sweeps,some locks.Its not stuff which will bother another good grappler.
If you are doing good grappling then Im certain its been incorporated from outside.Tkd does not contain groundwork,pummeling,hand fighting etc etc or tactics and strategy against a grappler or a grappler that can strike.

Tickling chins not bumping heads haha.Im being straight down the line,trying to be unbiased to either side to give a veiw why TKD looses face and what Iv found.
Its my thing my journey on how to incorporate TKD well to face a skilled grappler that can strike.Or stiker that can grapple.
If anyone else is doing it ,finding different things Id like to know.Clips,tactics.Whatever.Im open to being to being wrong or not getting it right.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#377524 - 02/25/08 01:30 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: matxtx]
michaelboik Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 60
GM Park Jong Soo has a video set available and on one DVD he demonstrates how a TKD person would handle a grapler,kickboxer, etc. I haven't gotten it yet and was wondering if anyone here has and what do they think of it?
_________________________
Mike www.drysdaletkd.com]

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#377525 - 02/25/08 01:43 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

In my longtime pursuit to learn my Art, I have been to many parts of the world. I can tell you that TKD does deserve its poor reputation, from my limited experiences. Also there are many ITF schools & those calling themselves ITF schools that have contributed to this as well.




I would totally agree with you. The ITF school I recently visited from an invite also relayed such thing and also spoke of a school in my city that was affiliated with them however they cut their ties due to not following the set out program and therefore did not want their name to be smudged.

I know of both ITF, WTF and independent schools that would fall into the poor category. It is unfortunate however this is not only Taekwondo and other martial arts have the same problems. But as you pointed out earlier, because of the popularity of TKD it is more readily seen.

Good for you that you've been to a lot of places to train. This is a positive that I always see and am trying to do more of.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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