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#377306 - 01/08/08 09:16 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

TKD in my opinion has maintained its popularity throughout the decades. However, it is indeed losing its face, to the rising emergence of MMA.




I would go further. I think the rise in MMAs is because of the watering down & babying of MAs in general, especially TKD, as it also suffers from that & has the added handicap of having so much emphasis on the Olympic sport aspect. JMHO




Eaxctly. I joined martial arts because I wanted to learn how to fight and I think most people do.

Who believes that traditional martial arts teach you how to fight anymore? So,people turn to mma, where they not only learn to fight,but actually get to fight.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#377307 - 01/08/08 09:43 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: BrianS]
EFRAIN Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 193
Loc: Paterson, NJ USA
I think the only way TKD can look good and make sense in real life application is by individualy making it affective and forget about the traditional training most TKD instructors see as effective cause it was taught that way to them. Times change and things change, that includes the martial arts and traditional arts trainers are so proud and ignorant that they dont want to accept that so they teach it without evolving. In the end all arts are the same in one way or another and thats what alot of instructor dont like just cause they want to be unique, I say forget that and wake the f up TO REALITY.


Bow out with respect from a TKD/BAGUA MARTIALIST

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#377308 - 01/08/08 10:04 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EFRAIN]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
I notice a widespread belief that in the past, TKD was a "real" martial art and the main trouble is that it has been corrupted by its conversion to martial sport. There is a grain of truth in this. The transition of TKD from martial art to martial sport has certainly has a negative effect on the art as a whole.

I don't think that is the whole story, however. TKD always had a heavy kicking emphasis, and that is fine as far as it goes. TKD's repertiore of kicks is as strong as any out there and good kicking skills are great to have. However, the gaps in TKD--especially with regards to wrestling--were always a problem. Even studnet lucky enough to have trained in great TKD schools eventually see they need to supplement their training.

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#377309 - 01/08/08 10:54 PM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: fileboy2002]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I notice a widespread belief that in the past, TKD was a "real" martial art and the main trouble is that it has been corrupted by its conversion to martial sport. There is a grain of truth in this. The transition of TKD from martial art to martial sport has certainly has a negative effect on the art as a whole.
I don't think that is the whole story, however. TKD always had a heavy kicking emphasis, and that is fine as far as it goes. TKD's repertiore of kicks is as strong as any out there and good kicking skills are great to have. However, the gaps in TKD--especially with regards to wrestling--were always a problem. Even studnet lucky enough to have trained in great TKD schools eventually see they need to supplement their training.




Sorry FileBoy, but Sir, the original style of the military TKD, which was responsible for developing it & spreading it, has a syllabus which the founder stated repeatedly that it has 2/3 hand techniques & 1/3 foot techinques. This is another common misconception that people have, due partly to the Olympic sport focus.

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#377310 - 01/09/08 12:56 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: ITFunity]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
The syllabus may well have listed more hand techniques than foot techniques, but I would bet you dollars to donuts the day to day emphasis was always more on kicking.

Just for the record, I trained at a non-tournament oriented ITF dojang.

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#377311 - 01/09/08 07:49 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: fileboy2002]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
The general consenus here seems to be that most of TKD that is taught today is impractical. From my experience, I would concur.

I know many on here have said how they use to train, or how TKD use to be. I have a lot of respect for people who want to improve TKD, and want to bring it back to the standard they perceive it to have been.

With all that said though, is it realistic to change TKD? Money makes the world go round, and as long as the people get what they want (which by and large is black belts and places for their children to get some excercise) that is what TKD (or any martial art, really) will be geared towards.

Those who do feel their TKD is lacking, or need to improve their skills, often go to other places to accomplish this (that is my experience anyway).

My question is this: If TKD, in general, is so lacking, and people who do TKD find that they must go elsewhere to further their skills, why bother doing TKD at all? I mean, if I felt Judo were better for improving my grappling, Boxing improving my hands, and Escrima to do some weapons work, why bother with TKD? For kicks? Are kicks THAT vital compared to hands/grappling/weapons? That is for an individual to decide I suppose.

Martial arts training takes time and money (apart from personal qualities required to learn MA's). If most TKD schools are not going to teach what the minority of its students want (there were about 3 children to every adult in my class) then why not go elsewhere? What is the point in trying to change TKD or pining for TKD to be something that, by and large, it isn't? Why not go elsewhere?

Sorry if I sound cynical, but am trying to thnk of the problems of changing TKD and how likely it would be.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#377312 - 01/09/08 07:58 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Prizewriter]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>My question is this: If TKD, in general, is so lacking, and people who do TKD find that they must go elsewhere to further their skills, why bother doing TKD at all? I mean, if I felt Judo were better for improving my grappling, Boxing improving my hands, and Escrima to do some weapons work, why bother with TKD? For kicks?<<

All arts have strengths and weaknesses. For years the Gracies touted their BJJ as the ultimate yet the recent BB Mag article about Royce says he takes Thai Boxing to improve his strikes. Their is also the "Know your Opponent..." component.

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#377313 - 01/09/08 10:51 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: EarlWeiss]
michaelboik Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 60
Taekwon-Do has gotten a bad rap over the years and in some cases rightfully so. Too many times we've seen a new black belt go off on his own to teach what little they have learned. Taekwon-do takes years to learn and many more years to master. To be certified as an instructor, you need to be a 4th Dan which takes 12+ years to achieve with diligent training. Master is 7th degree which takes an additional 18+ years of training. There are those who don't want to put in the time and just self promote. This is why we have 30 year old Masters.
Taekwon-Do has also earned a bad rap( but they're not alone) by becoming Day Cares. Instructors found out that there is more money in baby sitting so we have After School programs, Summer Camps, etc. to keep these kids busy for the parents. JMO

Mike
_________________________
Mike www.drysdaletkd.com]

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#377314 - 01/09/08 11:00 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: fileboy2002]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

The syllabus may well have listed more hand techniques than foot techniques, but I would bet you dollars to donuts the day to day emphasis was always more on kicking.
Just for the record, I trained at a non-tournament oriented ITF dojang.




Yes I understand & agree somewhat. However that is not the problem of the Art, in this case, military or Chang Hon TKD, but the fault of the instructor &/or school for not implementing the Art they say they follow. JMHO

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#377315 - 01/09/08 11:09 AM Re: Taekwondo loosing it's face/popularity [Re: Prizewriter]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

The general consenus here seems to be that most of TKD that is taught today is impractical. From my experience, I would concur.
I know many on here have said how they use to train, or how TKD use to be. I have a lot of respect for people who want to improve TKD, and want to bring it back to the standard they perceive it to have been.
With all that said though, is it realistic to change TKD?




First I think you may mean that TKD is impractical for SD. Now TKD can help studetns better defend themselves, but the way it is taught in most places, leaves much to be desired in that area. Even the way I teach, a SD Art form, is lacking. If someone wants to learn pure SD, without the extras that Chang Hon offers, they are best suited to go to a combat school, or MMA that specializes in just that.

I am not trying to long for a TKD of yester-year. I for the most part, have it. I follow the entire syllabus, therefore it is a more complete method of SD, but still lacking to those schools that emphasize combat SD. I wish just to impress that TKD had this history & why it was changed by many. I agree that it may be impossible to bring it back to its original intent & focus.

Finally, I for one am not trying to change TKD. I am following the original version & find it very well suited for my liking & purpose. In my case, if we change, we might find ourselves in the same sinking boat that many are already in. I'll stay on dry land! LOL
JMHO

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