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#377177 - 03/01/08 05:35 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: LifesFist]
janxspirit Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 132
Quote:

There are people in this world, who says that JKD is not a martial art at all, it is just a modification of wing chun or some good thought on a martial way and You shouldn't mention JKD at all.

This is opinion of my wing chun instructor and of all members of certain wing chun association and I heard the same thing from wing chun grand master W.Cheung.

How You would answer to such opinion? Have You ever heard of such a thing?




JKD is a process. That process is "absorb what is useful"

I don't think I'd listen to anyone who calls himself "Grand Master" unless it was Grandmaster Flash from the Furious Five -and even he gets on my nerves...

I believe Wing Chun, as practiced today, is a very limited martial art. I do trap when we spar, but I never never never use Wing Chun energy drills to learn trapping.

Most JKD programs these days involve some kind of boxing and some kind of takedown practice.

I think that sort of JKD program practitioner would always clean up on a wing chunner.
_________________________
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#377178 - 03/19/08 03:36 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: LifesFist]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73
The problem with comparing JKD and WC or even comparing WC to WC is that far to many come from a background of my teacher is or was the greatest and if he doesn't teach it or doesn't think much of something than it must not be worth knowing.

Most WC sucks because the people that are teaching it are dogmatic and don't understand the system at all. Yip Man dealt with these people by saying to them " yes you are right" and then walking away leaving them to think they knew what they were doing. Years later the gullible fall for I was Yip Mans closed door student , yips favorite , the best fighter etc and fail to use their head. They then end up with a shadow of what wing chun is.
JKD is a mish mash. Absorb what is useful sounds good but how can you do that unless you have learned all a system has to offer. Who decides you have picked the best parts of WC or savate or kali or BJJ?
WC is concept based. There are no absolutes. No one way. If a move saves your teeth it is correct. If you knock out the opponent it is correct. Some dogmatic types say things like wing chun has no hook. Garbage, wing chun has all sorts of circular concepts including hooks. It doesn't matter what Leung Ting, William Cheung or anyone else claims. Use your head ask if something makes sense. When you spar and you find your bong sau doesn't work don't just say oh well wing chun doesn't work against a boxer or some such. Adapt the concept to the situation.

End Of rant

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#377179 - 03/19/08 04:10 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: donchisau]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
You know what I think? At the end of the day, all we have are a collection of tools. Who is better at those tools will prove to come out ahead of someone else who is NOT as good with the tools....and what EVER name you choose to call your "tool-set" is irrelevant; go beat someone if you have a need to prove the validity your "system".


-John

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#377180 - 03/19/08 04:56 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: janxspirit]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Quote:

I believe Wing Chun, as practiced today, is a very limited martial art. I do trap when we spar, but I never never never use Wing Chun energy drills to learn trapping.





Uh, that's not really what those are for anyway I think.

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#377181 - 03/19/08 09:30 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: janxspirit]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



Most JKD programs these days involve some kind of boxing and some kind of takedown practice.

I think that sort of JKD program practitioner would always clean up on a wing chunner.




I honestly think thats an interesting statement.

Which techniques from boxing would you say are in there? Are you refering to sport(gloved) or bareknuckle boxing?
why do you think that?
And I didint quite understand what you meant with people using a boxing defence on the other thread?

Just pondering.

From what I can gather wing chun was simplified for a good reason, namely to have less techniques so they could be drilled more. Therefore a funtional system, created to fight with at that time in history . It came from white crane.

I am not knocking JKD neither.

Say one guy, who trains hard and develops some decent strikes and fighting skills and he is attacked by another guy who doesnt train hard and doesnt have decent strikes or fighting skills what does it matter which art it is?

The guy with the skills could be some guy who trains in a back yard somewhere and have no recognised style.

Jude

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#377182 - 03/19/08 10:12 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: jude33]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Yep, its not the art but the artist. Better still, its the guy who gets his techniques in during those split seconds. Who is better at that moment, even who gets lucky. If you have only a ground game and fight a boxer, you might win, but come back the same time tommorow and you may get your own behind served to you.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#377183 - 03/19/08 10:49 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: jude33]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Jude, if you donít mind my sharing my thoughts hereÖ

There are really only a few basic punches in boxing, thus itís a pretty simple art. In fact, I canít think of one that might be more simple. Definitely all of the punches from boxing are used by myself and many, many other JKD practitioners as there is no need to ďleave any outĒ.

JKD isnít a style so much as it is a method of training. Itís a process and not a product.

Basically the idea is to become the most well-rounded fighter possible, where the objective is to be able to flow (fight) between the ranges that fighting can morph into. We have diagnosed those ranges as the free-movement range (or ďstand-up), the clinch and the ground.

What we have noticed is that certain arts tend to show up better during fighting/sparring than have others. Some of those that do show up better are western boxing, muay Thai, savate, judo, Greco-Roman & freestyle wrestling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, etc. All of these arts have something major in common; aliveness.

The wing chun that I have experienced, does not often have this quality. In NO cases that I have directly experienced, was the quality of aliveness present in training.

Wing chun has typically been one of those that HAS not shown to manifest itself well in this regard. Doesnít mean that it canít. It just hasnít. There are solid reasons for why that is, though this doesnít mean that such a practice isnít or canít be beneficial.

To be fair, I have successfully used chain punching and very crude trapping during the sparring process. However this doesnít nearly look like the wing chun that I have seen as classically taught. One reason is because what we do comes out of a boxing base. Fundamentally it is different than much of the wing chun that I have seen.

This has just been MY experience and is merely my own opinion. Iím quite sure that others have experiences which differ from what Iíve encountered.

Thanks

-John

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#377184 - 03/20/08 12:15 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: JKogas]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Hi John

Everything you wrote made sense to me.
I still have a lot more research to do.
Early days yet.

Thanks

Jude


Edited by jude33 (03/20/08 12:16 PM)

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#377185 - 03/20/08 12:21 PM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: janxspirit]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Hi

Would there be a chance of clarifying what you meant on the other thread?
With regards to boxing defence?



Jude

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#377186 - 04/21/08 06:34 AM Re: JKD VS. Wing Chun [Re: WC_Lun]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
*sigh* I AM OBSESSED WITH MARTIAL ARTS! i don't do it...yet. but i study it's concepts and purpose alot. u don't think of JKD as a style, u think of it as an understanding. using different strategies in a simple way, is what JKD is about- i think. JKD IS a way of thinking, it is actually removing the view that martial arts is perfect, and is making it better.
_________________________
Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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