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#376966 - 01/06/08 05:07 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
The most respected scientific bodies have stated unequivocally that global warming is occurring, and people are causing it by burning fossil fuels (like coal, oil and natural gas) and cutting down forests. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences, which in 2005 the White House called "the gold standard of objective scientific assessment," issued a joint statement with 10 other National Academies of Science saying "the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions."

So basically every person who has a valid right to an opinion on the science of Global warming and it's causes agree on the basic facts.

This thread is like a bunch of teenage kids discussing the merits of MMA vrs TMA. Stick to MA debates folks, you have credibility in that arena.
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#376967 - 01/06/08 05:14 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
theres so much conflicting info out there its hard to figure out the truth. it really is the most futile debate going as the boffins keep clashing their pov's. what can lay people really add????? (i'm using energy efficient lightbulbs just in case!!)
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#376968 - 01/06/08 05:27 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
>>"The most respected scientific bodies have stated unequivocally"
Respected by who? The UN and Al Gore. Certainly not by anyone who wants to see truth in science.

>> "that global warming is occurring, and people are causing it by burning fossil fuels (like coal, oil and natural gas) and cutting down forests."
There has not been any evidence offered up to support this.
What they are saying is that: the earth's tempertaures are warming and we burn fossil fuels, therefore the burning of fossil fuels is warming the earth". This idea completely ignores the fact the climate has always changed - even long, long long before humans burned fossil fuels. It also ignores the fact that temps on other planets have changed and are changing. So unless you think martials are burning fossil fuels, you'll have to come up for another explaination for the changes there.

In England a court of law has ruled that al gore's fictional "documentary" can not be shown in classrooms unless it is accompanied with disclaimers stating that it is largely politicized and based on unproven claims.

I'll have to look for a link to one of the latest articles, but recently a panel of 400 scientists refuted the notion of man-made global warming.

The only people saying that "the debate is over", "it's unequivocal", etc., are those on the political left. And the debate is over for them because accepting the truth can bring an end to thier political goals. There are also those who have accepted the loss in the media war over the issue and are just jumping on the bandwagon now to try and stay in power.

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#376969 - 01/06/08 05:38 PM Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? [Re: JAMJTX]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
web page

THE STARK headline appeared just over a year ago. "2007 to be 'warmest on record,' " BBC News reported on Jan. 4, 2007. Citing experts in the British government's Meteorological Office, the story announced that "the world is likely to experience the warmest year on record in 2007," surpassing the all-time high reached in 1998.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the planetary hot flash: Much of the planet grew bitterly cold.


One of the first things that I see as odd here is that they expected 2007 to be the warmest winter since 1998. If the temps have been steadily rising as is the claim, then why would it not have been the warmwest winter since 2006? And why, in 2006 was it not warmer than 2005?

On our local weather they often show the record high and low for the day. So far this winter our temps have been pretty much in between the record lows and highs for the day. The highs being in the 1960's. If we are not setting record high temps year after year, then the temp is not rising.
Although we are told they are going up what we actually see is that they are going up sometimes and down sometimes.

Think for a minute, if you turned on the tv and were told it was raining and you looked out the window and saw that it was not, would you then start to believe that the sunshine is rain because they told you it was rain? Or would you think for yourself and accept that it is not raining at all and they are wrong?

In regards to "global warming" you have to learn to accept what is actually happening in reality - not what they tell you on tv.

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#376970 - 01/06/08 05:39 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Kimo, there's always another view.

http://www.junkscience.com/

With valid points that the scaremongers won't address in public debate, how do you expect people to take AGW seriously?
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#376971 - 01/06/08 05:56 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: JAMJTX]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

In England a court of law




So a judge is the final word on truth in science?

Quote:

>>"The most respected scientific bodies have stated unequivocally"
Respected by who? The UN and Al Gore. Certainly not by anyone who wants to see truth in science.





Um the scientist thats who or as I put it before, everyone entitled to have an opinion on the subject.

Quote:

The only people saying that "the debate is over", "it's unequivocal", etc., are those on the political left. And the debate is over for them because accepting the truth can bring an end to thier political goals.




Actually the debate has all but been over in the scientific community for a long time, I don't quote or even concern myself with the politicians or industry, because they all have motives other then the truth.

You want to talk about junk science? Then look at the few scientists who claim the jury is still out on the issue, these are the same types who claimed Cigerettes are not addictive and creationism has scientific merit.

Quote:

This idea completely ignores the fact the climate has always changed - even long, long long before humans burned fossil fuels.




This statment just tells me you are not familar with the science behind the global warming conclusions, if you read just 2 paragraphs into any "layman" explaination of global warming you simply wouldn't write something like that.

Bottom line, this "debate" is occuring only in the politcal arena, the scientists moved on a long time ago.
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#376972 - 01/06/08 06:08 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: McSensei]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Kimo, there's always another view




McSensi....that is clearly a political website and clearly a poltical argument being made, just look at the language they use. Do you honestly think this is how scientists would debate findings and conclusions?

The nice thing about science is it's not really a matter of opinion, it's based on math are results that can be replicated and quantified.
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#376973 - 01/06/08 06:12 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
What the British court rules essentially was that "An Inconvenient Truth" is largely a pack of lies and political manipulation - not science.

And only leftist "scientists" have moved on from the debate. There is still science that proves them wrong that they refuse to look at.

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#376974 - 01/06/08 07:44 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: JAMJTX]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
The heart of a good scam is always "irrefutable truth"... so when it's refuted, you can claim that the "true information" is not really true. That's what's going on in the global warming debate.

Climatologists have told us for years that the weather changes in 20, 50 and 100 year cycles, and that the trends toward global warming and ice ages moves at about 1,000 year cycles. As to date, I'm not aware of anything that has changed that model... other than the "Chicken Little" claims of Al Gore and his leftist buddies .

Unfortunately for him, engineering is a scientific endeavor, so it's easy to recognize what's actually science and what's passed off as science. Except for people who stand to make tons of money from switching everybody to bicycles, I don't see any of the engineering companies falling over backwards to change their engineering models to correct the "global warming" problem... and thats a good measure of actually how legitimate it is.

If there was concrete data that showed correctable margins of change in engineering that could be made to change the outcomes of "global warming discharges" into the atmosphere, both government and engineering would be making those changes. Otherwise would be like sticking your gun in your mouth to do target practice... for engineering is always trying to hit a "target level" of discharge volumes, concentrations, or thermal changes... so without any standard set that reproduces those in measurable ways, it's just Chicken Little telling everybody "the sky is falling".

15 years of being involved in pollution abatement gives you a good read of what's actually going on in environmental issues, and nothing we encountered in our work during that time ever indicated we were doing anything but good for the environment... and when the largest furnaces on earth don't put out measurable heat 15 feet from the building, it reaks of somebody trying to start a panic so they can sell asbestos suits...

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#376975 - 01/06/08 08:08 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: JAMJTX]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

What the British court rules essentially was that "An Inconvenient Truth" is largely a pack of lies and political manipulation - not science.





:sigh: So now we have your interpretation of the English courts ruling and that is lawyers arguing with a politician...why not try basing your opinions on empirical evidence instead of the opinions of lay persons.

Quote:

And only leftist "scientists" have moved on from the debate. There is still science that proves them wrong that they refuse to look at.




Scientist don't use terms like leftist, only propagandist do.

The people with an agenda on this topic are the ones who are working so hard to "debunk" Global Warming. They have a pre determined outcome they are working very hard to try and validate, they are getting very little to no traction in the scientific community because their evidence does not hold up to scutiny....so they are waging a battle in the court of public opinion.

When you hear the term junk science, it's coming from people who are not scientist, and have an agenda. It's not as if MIT says yes to Global Warming and Cal Tech says no it's junk science.

If there was a serious debate on the issue you would hear it from countless respectable scientific bodies...that is not happening. Even the Whitehouse, the far right Whitehouse has given in on the issue.

Now I will say I agree with George Carlin that nature is far more powerful then we will ever be, and that over time any damage we could do would be wiped away in a blip of time.

That does not mean we should not be good stewards of the earth, that does not mean we don't have the abilty to alter the climate in such a way as to do harm to the human existance. It is a lot easier to determine what has happened, then what will. But given the evidence there is no question IMO that we should invest in efforts to at the very least leave the place as we found it.

A final thought, what if the worse case scenario turns out to be true?
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