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#376986 - 01/07/08 01:01 AM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: JAMJTX]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Kimo, if you truly feel this strongly about the environment, then the most responsible thing you (or anyone) can do, is limit the amount of children you (we) create. If everyone adopted the surplus of humanity that exists, and slowed the birth rate, the strain on the worlds resources would be eased considerably.
There are just too damn many of us. 6 billion hungry organisms swarming a tiny, pretty marble floating in an ocean....
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#376987 - 01/07/08 01:14 AM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Cord]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
They are already doing this in China - country that already has the kind of government wanted by those persuing the "man made global warming" cause.

The over-population is also something that I don't buy into.
I'm sure it is possible to someday over populate the world, but we'r enot there yet.

You can comfortbly fit the whole puplation of the U.S. into TX. If we anted to, we could produce enough food right here in the USA to feed most of the world. But even if we did, there are governments that would stop it from getting to the people.

There may be some places that are over populated - it seems India may actually be. But worldwide it is not a problem and certainly not causing global warming.

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#376988 - 01/07/08 01:17 AM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Cord]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Kimo, if you truly feel this strongly about the environment




It's not that I feel that strongly about the environment as much as I feel that strongly about science and the scientific method.

It's a round round world my friend.

Quote:

If everyone adopted the surplus of humanity that exists, and slowed the birth rate, the strain on the worlds resources would be eased considerably.
There are just too damn many of us. 6 billion hungry organisms swarming a tiny, pretty marble floating in an ocean....




The world can always use another Kimo
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#376989 - 01/07/08 06:16 AM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Even if we aren't doing the damage soem groups would have us believe I agree with Ed that it is pretty well common sense that you shouldn't consume and pollute unendingly and without control, the Global Warming issue aside, the massive amounts of pollution going around some of the larger cities like L.A. and it's outlying communities, Sacramento, Chicago, NYC, Philly, Newark, even here in Salem and Portland Oregon, and it's negative affects on public health is undeniable and reason enough to keep things in check. Not all "progress" is good. Sometimes it's too fast, too uncontrolled, and dangerous in the long run. It's like MA training I mean you take a beginner, give them the basics, but before they master the basics they learn a bunch of advanced or intermediate techniques and they start beating guys they lost to before and looking "cooler" I mean they "know more" and that' progress right? But then they go up agaisnt someone without those fancy moves but solid basics and they get taken out soundly. Why? They progressed improperly and it led to a downfall. Same principle I think. Balance, control, and common sense are the key. There is a reason for the substantial rises in cancer, and cardiovascular disease in the last century or so. Granted there are many other reasons but that is a huge one.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/conten...Lung_Cancer.asp

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/93079.php

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthyliving/harmfulsubstances/

Now I personally beleive in global warming to degree. While I realixe it is a natural process I beleive we've sped up that process, and besides the studies I've seen I have reason to believe from personal experiece: There is a beautiful Glacier a couple miles from where I used to live in the country in central Oregon that has receeded several yards in the last few decades and it's rate of recession increases somewhat each year and has been for these past several decades as the communities nearby have substantially grown as well as cities and whatnot all over. It seems to me to be a contributor but that is just my opinion.
Another sad issue is the loss of Salmon in the surrounding rivers due to warming of those rivers from straightneing them, removing vegetation along the Riparian zone, etc. and I'd think Global Warming certainly could have some effects but again I don't know for sure. Granted with a lot of work to improve the environment we've brought a lot of Salmon back but still. Anyway it would be shame to lose these things for good.
You can go to dangerous extremes to the left but also to the right (not saying that is any of you)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#376990 - 01/07/08 11:52 AM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:


It's not that I feel that strongly about the environment as much as I feel that strongly about science and the scientific method.






Dont follow that one.
It would seem the application of science is controlled by money, infleunce and politics.
It would seem from science they create technology with out thinking about the effect on the enviroment.
Fridges springs to mind on that one.
Or is there realy no hole in the ozone? Hard to believe who tells the truth sometimes.

Jude

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#376991 - 01/07/08 12:03 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: jude33]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
jude

Its a bit of tail chase....technology causes problems but technology often solves them as well.

Ironically the USA not signing Kyoto reduced its emission of various pollutants below that of those thet DID sign.

If the problem is going to be solved--or just greatly reduced, its probably going to be technology that will provide the answer/answers.

Of course that is just going to probably cause OTHER problems.

Were not even really sure what is actually causeing this latest warming trend----the sun activilty data is kinda scary, in that if its not "us"--us being people, that is driving the majority of the change, then forces beyond/out current control might be at work.

We CAN do something about how we live our lives, generate power etc, hard to get China and India etc on board, but there are things we can do and should be doing.

If the main driver is the sun.....then there is little that we can do at this point save rolling with it.


Edited by cxt (01/07/08 12:08 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#376992 - 01/07/08 12:17 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: jude33]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

Or is there realy no hole in the ozone? Hard to believe who tells the truth sometimes.




Interesting question... the holes in the ozone layer are naturally occuring. Trees and "vegetable matter" are the creators of ozone in the first place, so the "hole" in the ozone layer occurs because there are not trees or vegetation at the north and south poles.

I would suggest that none of us want the planet to be polluted and killing off the life forms that we all know and love... but at the same time, we can't stop the natural progression of living on the planet and affecting the "skin" of the planet either. We don't effect "climate change"... we simply are one of the factors that either slow or speed it up, and possibly affect something as minor as a hundredth of a degree of it's overall impact... so mankind isn't "killing the planet". I don't want the snail darter to die off, but I'm not putting my life on hold to protect it either... Dodo birds and passenger pidgeons have both passed away in my lifetime, and the "significant effects" of that haven't turned the clock backwards one tick. Species come and go on the earth all the time, and we should do whatever we can to protect their environment, but not stop the world so they can get off.

Politicians always portray things in a way to garner attention, and "leftists" (big government, control freaks) always have the "sky is falling" scenario of issues... like global warming, health care, and everything else that they can, to scare you into their camp to get your vote. If those issues don't hit you, I'm sure that the other side using the "safety, security, and oil is evil" pundits are making their play for your attention.

What we need is "thinkers" instead of sheep... and people who can see through the to actually see the facts. The world might end in a couple of more thousand or hundred thousand years... who knows? It might get hit by a meteor... or Al Queda might actually get a big enough dirty bomb to poison the entire planet... who knows? What we need to be doing is working toward keeping our lives straight, our environment clean, and trying to work together so that life continues.

Don't run from the scaremongers... and don't flock toward them either. Use your head and good judgement. Most of the time, that will make things work out fine.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#376993 - 01/07/08 12:31 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: wristtwister]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Wrist

"we need thinkers... not sheep."

Good advice in any situtation.

I was watching Bill Mahr one night, and he had a scientist--the name of which escapes me whom was plugging his book.

Among other things that left Mahr and the guests non-plused was a couple of interesting statisical facts.

One was about polar bears---spcifically HUNTING polar bears---the toll taken by hunters is vastly large than the losses due to global warming---couple of 100 a year as opposed to just an esitmated few a year.
His question?
If one were trying to save poler bears then wouldn't it be more effective and faster to decrease the hunting of them???

The second was even more "commen sense" and please forgive me I do not recall the exact numbers.
He mentioend that global warming was held responsible for "X" number of deaths in England/GB--that the increase in temp have led to an increease in heat related deaths.
HOWEVER--what nobody was wanting to talk about was that due to warmer temp and shorter winters many MORE people were NOT dying of cold related problems....with a net gain in lives saved.
He extrapolated it out, assumeing that the global warming people were correct and by a given date (again, sorry, don't recall the exact figures) but the gain in lives saved was many, many times that of lives lost due to heat.

Wish I could recall the guys name, he was really good.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#376994 - 01/07/08 12:59 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: cxt]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

jude

Were not even really sure what is actually causeing this latest warming trend----the sun activilty data is kinda scary, in that if its not "us"--us being people, that is driving the majority of the change, then forces beyond/out current control might be at work.

Quote:



Hi.CXT.

Just the study of the Earths orbit in relation to the Sun is a mini science of its own.


My simplistic explanation (guess) to date .
From what I can gather the angle between Earth's rotational axis and the normal to the plane of its orbit is 23.44 degrees and is decreasing.
The magnetic North Pole Has Been Moving at an Accelerated Pace Southwards.
Which might be the result of the angle changing ??
Yet it is said Antarctic is Losing 30 Cubic Miles of Ice Each Year.




Looks like they are right to bring in pollution control.
Because it is so complicated it seems they dont know why.
Problem is as usual it gets messy.




To the best of my knowledge the ozone is 0/3 as opposed to 0/2 . An oxygen molocule with 3 oxygen atoms as opposed to
2 oxygen atoms. The hole or the thinning of the ozone is lack of 0/3 said to be caused by pollution .



Jude



Edited by jude33 (01/07/08 01:10 PM)

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#376995 - 01/07/08 01:09 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: wristtwister]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Agreed.

Jude

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