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#376996 - 01/07/08 01:13 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: jude33]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
jude

Could be, I'm sorry to say that I'm really not that well-read on what "angles" of the earth might/might not be doing.

Have been reading quite a bit lately on solor activity itself....how the sun behaves and its effects on the earth, more or less regardless of earthly factors.

Which as far as I'm concerned means we should be doing everything we can resonably do to reduce pollution.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#376997 - 01/07/08 01:44 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... *DELETED* [Re: cxt]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Post deleted by jude33

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#376998 - 01/07/08 02:09 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: jude33]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
CXT.
Agreed.
Complicated stuff.


Kimo
Quote:


Your experience with a Chuckleheaded EPA beaurocrat is hardly relevent (although trust me when I say I feel your pain I could tell you plenty of stories as well).
Look I can see why you would have concerns about the ability of Goverment officials to make policy, but that is a different thread.





I dissagree. It is totaly relevent. The whole world would be a better place if people did their jobs correctly. That includes investigations in to global warming.

If who ever it was took quite a few samples at different times/dates from upstream and realy investigated, on what I understand to be a scientific basis, what was happening then perhaps the truth could have been aquired quickly.

I presume the person in charge of that part of the investigation was a scientist?

If so is that typical? If they werent then why not?
I dont suppose you know if they were scientists or not. But unless this kind of poor investigation skills is addressed then is it any wonder there is so much confusion?

Jude

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#376999 - 01/07/08 02:30 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: wristtwister]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Politicians always portray things in a way to garner attention, and "leftists" (big government, control freaks) always have the "sky is falling" scenario of issues... like global warming, health care, and everything else that they can, to scare you into their camp to get your vote. If those issues don't hit you, I'm sure that the other side using the "safety, security, and oil is evil" pundits are making their play for your attention.





Wrist, a good post with overall concepts I think we all can agree on.

The thing is, I really don't like to see "lefty Al Bore" type comments in any debate because it's just as easy to take the same pot shots at the other side and in the end accomplishes very little.

The liberals are accused of gloom and doom and big goverment, (and that may be true) yet the Neo Con's used fear to sell a war and created the largest layer of Governent and control since the Roosevelt Admin, and has spent more money then any administration (adjusted for inflation) in history.

My point is not to bash the right or left, they are equally bashable, just to state that most of us agree a lot more then we disagree, and all of those right/left zingers do nothing to improve the debate or discover the truth.

So we disagree on the causes of Global Warming, I think your nuts, you think I am nuts. Fair enough.

But we both agree that being good stewards of the earth is a good thing, leave it like we found it the best we can. Nature is far more powerful and mysterious then we will ever understand, and what will happen will happen. But I think we would all agree the clean air and renewable fuels are a good thing.

Personally I like my goverment to make sure my food is not going to kill, my roads are paved and if my house catches on fire someone will show up and put it out.

After that, I'd prefer they stay out of my life...that is not the case though...the goverment tells me who to marry, how to die, when and where I can or cannot pray, what I can say, who I can hire...etc etc etc...So I wouldn't say I am liberal but that also doesn't mean EVERY idea they have is a bad one.

Ideas based on Merit and thoughfulness get my attention.

-Kimo
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#377000 - 01/07/08 03:22 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:


After that, I'd prefer they stay out of my life...that is not the case though...the goverment tells me who to marry, how to die, when and where I can or cannot pray, what I can say, who I can hire...etc etc etc...




You see, that is why I love the net- someone decides to post as 'the voice of reason' having been no such thing throughout the thread in question, they take the middle road, agree to disagree etc etc, but then they...just...cant...quite... make it...to the end...of the post....without shaking up another hornets nest and betraying themselves as anything but neutral. Nice try, but you shattered your own illusion

If you think anyone other than your wife to be decides exactly the circumstances of your marriage, then you are truly not seeing the truth
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#377001 - 01/07/08 03:22 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: jude33]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

I presume the person in charge of that part of the investigation was a scientist?

If so is that typical? If they werent then why not?
I dont suppose you know if they were scientists or not. But unless this kind of poor investigation skills is addressed then is it any wonder there is so much confusion?





If you have had to work with goverment agencies you might understand both the frusration and why it's not relevant to the research behind the cause of Global Warming.

I don't want to say it's like comparing your Math teacher to Sir Issac Newton, but it kinda of is.

Are these people schooled in science sure, are they doing groundbreaking research...not so much.

As a disclaimer, not all people who work for the goverment are bad, often it's the system they must operate under that leads to mind boggeling levels of incompetence.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#377002 - 01/07/08 08:50 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

If you have had to work with goverment agencies you might understand both the frusration and why it's not relevant to the research behind the cause of Global Warming.





I've had to work with dozens of government agencies over the years, and I understand both the individual and institutional stupidity of some of the government representation. They have "the power", so they are not easily dissuaded from any point of view that the agency in question takes, so regardless of how well your case represents the truth, the mission of government is to extract wealth from the private sector to fund it's operations... so don't look for much sympathy from them for "the truth", and don't look for much sympathy for them from me, because I fully understand how they work and how to deal with them. Most of the time, it reaches an impasse and becomes a legal matter, unless they actually have employed someone with some sense.

Government in America operates through "process", not information, and they (meaning "agencies") make their collective bones from pressuring businesses and individuals into knuckling under to their will. That's why the constitution has so many safeguards to protect the people from the government... it was exactly why the Mayflower left England. Government hasn't changed, and people haven't changed, so they still require substantial protection from runaway government power... and when a former vice-president takes the stage to pound an agenda that he quietly spent two terms setting up (remember "re-inventing government?) and then steps onto the world stage to promote it... the people are starting out from behind...

Personally, I've always thought "plastic man" Al Bore (who "reinvents" himself constantly) was the primal example of idiocy. He's never had a thought go through his head that wasn't redirected to politics and the solicitation of power for himself and his leftist agenda... and I don't really care that you don't like the term "leftist", would you prefer "communist"? Go back to the early 1900's and read the newspapers... that's what all the communists were called back then (leftists). The language has only recycled.

I don't presuppose to change anybody's mind about global warming... and you're welcome to think the "junk" presented as science is science if you wish. When your math skills are off by a factor of 100, your results are too... so the simple miscalculation of the actual temperature change from all the effects of "global warming" are actually minute compared from what is being broadcast by "Chicken Little" Gore... so you might want to get a grip before you swallow his "scientific theory" and political speak, which is the actual "science" of the global warming theory. It was so bad that the "global warming" discussions were changed to "climate change" because the g-w arguments were getting shot down faster than snoopy and the red baron... and they were changed because all of the "predictions" of increasing temperatures and storms of cat-5 magnitude "failed to materialize".

The formulas for climate change are very complicated, and their "extended dates of margin" run in hundreds of years... not months and years, as stated by the g-w crowd. Life as we know it has been around a while, and while we're in the middle or front end of the "industrial ages", we're a long way from totally crapping out the planet and it's resources. There's actually more damage done by a volcanic eruption than all the industry in the world... and if you don't think so, talk to the people near Mount St. Helens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_St._Helens

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#377003 - 01/07/08 09:33 PM The Grady has done everything thread [Re: wristtwister]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I would just like the weather to be cold in the winter and hot in the summer.
I'm not a scientist and I haven't had every job in the market to qualify me,but I doo feel that everyone needs to do what they can for the environment. It's our responsibility as humans.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#377004 - 01/07/08 09:47 PM Re: The global warming thread [Re: BrianS]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
No reason to be a [censored] about things, Brian. If it offends you that I trained as a mechanical engineer with a minor in electrical engineering, and worked in the environmental business for 15 years, I'm just sorry as hell for you.

Evidently, something I've said or done over the past few months has pulled your short hairs, so why don't you PM me and let me know what it is?

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#377005 - 01/07/08 10:33 PM Re: The Global Warming thread... [Re: Kimo2007]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

After that, I'd prefer they stay out of my life...that is not the case though...the goverment tells me who to marry, how to die, when and where I can or cannot pray, what I can say, who I can hire...etc etc etc...So I wouldn't say I am liberal but that also doesn't mean EVERY idea they have is a bad one.


-Kimo




The goverment tells you who to marry?
I presume you still can vote in your country?

Jude

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