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#376335 - 01/28/08 12:08 PM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Lol...so Ed is supposed to refute this thing you supposedly saw 45 years ago, c'mon man...he doesn't even need to be a skeptic to doubt the weak case you've made so far, he just needs to be less credulous than you.

Seriously where is the mental disconnect here that makes you think someone owes you an explanation for phenomena that only you saw (as far as people involved in the conversation) 45 years ago?

Speculation of how to do the trick or anything else would be ridiculous, we don't have any information other than your (obviously biased) report of an event, it would be nonsense to speculate on that kind of thing.

I really don't understand why this is important anyway, you can't do it, so unless you believe you can train yourself to do it relatively easily, who cares?

Like Ed or someone mentioned, I guess you could take really hot baths.

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#376336 - 01/28/08 12:40 PM Re: Safety [Re: Zach_Zinn]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

so Ed is supposed to refute this thing you supposedly saw 45 years ago




Oh, no..no..no..no..no... you don't get away with that one.
I reported exactly what I saw, and how the demonstration was prepared. I never offered one bit of "this is how it was done... or anything else other than my observation of the event. You, and Ed and Fileboy are the ones claiming "it was a trick"...

Offering Brian's suggestion "I don't believe it"... is not a proof of anything. Telling me all the tripe you guys have quoted and requoted still isn't any kind of proof to me that you have any more information than I do... and as a matter of fact, are merely making it up as you go along... since you didn't observe anything, know nothing of the demonstration other than what I said, and are parroting your supposed in-depth knowledge of thermodynamics.

I readily admit that I have no idea how the zen master did what he did... but I saw what I saw... and it's been reported accurately.
Quote:

he doesn't even need to be a skeptic to doubt the weak case you've made so far, he just needs to be less credulous than you.


So, I'm to assume that his opinion of events he didn't see, has no knowledge of, and is passing judgement on, is more credible than an eyewitness account of the event? That speaks volumes about credibility right there.

Quote:

Speculation of how to do the trick or anything else would be ridiculous, we don't have any information other than your (obviously biased) report of an event, it would be nonsense to speculate on that kind of thing.





That's the first credible thing you've said... but, again, all I'm saying is that I reported accurately what occurred. You seem to think I have some bias about it, but until someone can actually offer a reasonable explanation of how the "trick" was pulled off, I'll take first hand visual experience over supposition every time.

Quote:

I really don't understand why this is important anyway, you can't do it, so unless you believe you can train yourself to do it relatively easily, who cares?





I readily admit that I can't do it... and I readily admit that you or Ed or anyone else has not offered a plausible explanation of how what you claim is a trick was done. The only thing you get right is that it isn't important.

You guys are so hell-bent on being spoilers that you don't see your own faults in reasoning. Reasonable skepticism is a healthy, invigorating pastime... obsessing on it is pretty telling about personality traits.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#376337 - 01/28/08 01:11 PM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

You guys are so hell-bent on being spoilers that you don't see your own faults in reasoning. Reasonable skepticism is a healthy, invigorating pastime... obsessing on it is pretty telling about personality traits.






Oooo you bitch! That is subtle, yet scathing! I like!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#376338 - 01/28/08 02:22 PM Re: Safety [Re: Gavin]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Quote:

You guys are so hell-bent on being spoilers that you don't see your own faults in reasoning. Reasonable skepticism is a healthy, invigorating pastime... obsessing on it is pretty telling about personality traits.






Oooo you bitch! That is subtle, yet scathing! I like!




Personality traits aside,(thats a science in itself) nobody knows yet if a way of doing it can be found . I think the key word is "yet".
Me-thinks (for anybody who doesnt know what me-thinks means, it is Old English for "I think", or a better explanation "I had a thought" ) this argument wont reach an end.

Quote:



he doesn't even need to be a skeptic to doubt the weak case you've made so far, he just needs to be less credulous than you.






Zach. I dont think wristtwister realy made a case. More of an observation. So to disprove that the water was boiling at 100c ( give or take 7 degrees) might need explaining.

His observations arent to be proved or disproved, so I dont consider that a case. What would happen if water could reach boiling point at a much lower tempreture with the same scenario he observed ?

Jude







Edited by jude33 (01/28/08 02:36 PM)

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#376339 - 01/28/08 02:59 PM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
and here I was actually starting to feel sorry for you.

I see you are taking on a more semantic argument as oppossed to literally believing 'mind over matter' can make skin impervious to boiling water. I consider that progress. I'm proud of you Grady - you took a big step today...


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#376340 - 01/28/08 05:55 PM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

You guys are so hell-bent on being spoilers that you don't see your own faults in reasoning. Reasonable skepticism is a healthy, invigorating pastime... obsessing on it is pretty telling about personality traits.





Please, don't change the subject to our/my personalities, you're just making it worse. Do you fancy yourself a psychologist now as well as a philosopher?

Bottom line: you can't prove that someone broke the laws of physics, so none of us needs to prove anything to you, the ball is in your court - and you dropped it.

I wouldn't have even bothered posting in the thread, but I couldn't let it go after I saw you actually claiming that people who don't believe or accept your version of events need to somehow "disprove" you, that is the ridiculous part, and that is the part I take issue with.

If you want to believe he somehow made his hand impervious to injury then you're welcome to believe that.

However certainly don't expect anyone else to believe it without some kind of empirical evidence, which your own subjective memories and opinions most defnitely are not.

I don't know anything about thermodynamics, I don't need to...anyone can see that what you are claiming is at the very least not a repeatable, observable phenomenon and that really is the bottom line.

If you think it is then you prove me wrong. I say that if you stick your hand in boiling water it gets burnt.

You can go test my claim right now and it should have similar results for pretty much everyone trying it, the same cannot be said of somehow avoiding injury with one's hand in boiling water.

I don't need to have special scientific knowledge to doubt what you are saying.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (01/28/08 06:02 PM)

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#376341 - 01/28/08 08:42 PM Re: Safety [Re: Gavin]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
... and they still haven't figured it out...



_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#376342 - 01/28/08 09:10 PM Re: Safety [Re: Zach_Zinn]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

Please, don't change the subject to our/my personalities




I wasn't changing the subject, just commenting... how many personalities do you have?

Quote:

Do you fancy yourself a psychologist now as well as a philosopher?




Could be, maybe I'm writing a dissertation on obsessive skepticism.

Quote:

Bottom line: you can't prove that someone broke the laws of physics




Where did I make that claim?

Quote:

If you want to believe he somehow made his hand impervious to injury then you're welcome to believe that.




Where did I say that?

Quote:

I don't know anything about thermodynamics, I don't need to...anyone can see that what you are claiming is at the very least not a repeatable, observable phenomenon and that really is the bottom line.




Where did I say it was?

Quote:

If you think it is then you prove me wrong.




No thanks.

Quote:

I say that if you stick your hand in boiling water it gets burnt.




Highly probable...

Quote:

You can go test my claim right now and it should have similar results for pretty much everyone trying it, the same cannot be said of somehow avoiding injury with one's hand in boiling water.




That's probably true.

Quote:

I don't need to have special scientific knowledge to doubt what you are saying.




Probably not... but it would have been more interesting if you had actually disagreed with what I did say instead of how you chose to interpret it.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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