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#376245 - 12/31/07 10:08 PM Safety
Phillip_H Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 1
All,

I've recently come to reading a number of articles of pressure points (martial arts, not medicinal). Can anyone point me to references about safety regarding pressure points. Particularly how to avoid serious or permanent damage to an opponent.

Many thanks for your time.

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#376246 - 12/31/07 11:09 PM Re: Safety [Re: Phillip_H]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
Learn the "medicinal" side first. Then you'll know more about the results of manipulating these points.

There is no guaranteed safety because of the unknown factors. You have some points that you can attack that will manipulate the bloodpressure, for example. You may think you are taking a safe approach by striking lightly. Then you may find out that person has high blood pressure, but not until after they are dead.
By studying shiatsu you will learn what types of "patients" that you should not give treatment to. These same rules will apply in using them in fighting.

One good book is called TSUBO Vital Points FOr Oriental Therapy. I use it as a text in my classes.

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#376247 - 01/01/08 02:40 AM Re: Safety [Re: Phillip_H]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Opinions differ. Take what you can use and leave the rest. I respect and understand Jim's opinion but I had a better option for myself.

I study with an established curriculum, certified instructors proceeding along a fairly well trod path. Some healing is integrated into this curriculum but it is very little compared to what Jim is probably referring to.

I would not have wanted to pursue hitting people on potentially vital points without guidance hands on from an instructor.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#376248 - 01/01/08 10:27 AM Re: Safety [Re: underdog]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I think now the vison becomes clear about why you learn the pressure points through kata and "through the system" rather than simply teaching "pressure points". I must have warned people 50 or 75 times on the boards that just knowing pressure points can be very damaging to your uke and fellow practitioners... and hitting points still does damage, even if you can do the resucitations.

Interruptions to the blood supply of a vital organ, or creating a nerve impingment takes a lot of time to "right itself", even if you're awake and "doing fine" otherwise. Most of the strikes take some massage or acupuncture to correct.

Think of it this way... if I give you a revolver loaded with six bullets, spin the chamber, and then shoot you with it and it knocks you out... what is resuciation going to do for you? It'll get you awake... it won't cure the bullet hole, the damage to the tissue, or stop the bleeding... those require "further assistance".

Now, if I create a force application to a specific point in your nervous system or blood supply, what's the difference other than the fact that the force is applied with a knuckle or other "karate weapon" and not a bullet? How about if I use a nunchukun to strike the point?

Besides the obvious answers, of knocking the wind out of someone, or breaking a bone on the inside of them, the answer is that the force has to dissipate itself. If it's a "point strike", it's on specifically designated tissue that has a "purpose" in being hit... meaning it causes a specific reaction, or specific damage. Unattended, it continues to be damaged and doing damage, and simply waking someone up isn't "fixing" anything.

That being said, as a martial artist, you NEED to know the pressure point work... but it isn't something to do once a week in class and then come back next week for a repeat. It's an ongoing study, and a very specific training using your kata or art so you understand it's applications. You need to learn how to stop the pressure point damage BEFORE you start hitting points and screwing up your uke's world.
Getting certified in basic first aid is a good start... as well as good for the dojo. Contact sports create all kinds of injuries by themselves, much less with "intent".

Anyway, Please... don't think that pressure points are "a way to fight"... they are simply a tool. They're very effective, but you have to have the skills to use them, and to use them in a combat situation. An attacker isn't going to simply stick out their neck or turn their head to allow you to hit a vital point... they're going to be trying to hit or harm you... and you have to have accuracy and skill under pressure to make them work.

Like shooting, lots of people can kill a paper target at 25 yards, but can't hit the inside of a barn in a combat situation. Having appropriate skills is necessary, but having combat skills is vital... and acquiring them in pressure point work can be a bit dicey. Your attackers aren't going to walk up and let you hit them with their arms extended, or neck "available"... they're going to be fighting, and you have to "work your way in" to them.

While I have all the respect for kyusho-jitsu teachers in the world, their cheese has slid off the cracker. They need to be concentrating on putting those skills into the arts rather than giving the impression that they are an "all in all" super self-defense. Like karate, it used to be taught in a manner that blended the information into training, but now is taught like "basket weaving" as a separate course and represented as an "end all" method of fighting.

It isn't... it's only a tool.

HAPPY NEW YEAR....

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#376249 - 01/07/08 04:00 AM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Also, I understand messing with a person's pressure point can jam up their ki flow. Wouldn't want that to happen.

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#376250 - 01/08/08 12:15 AM Re: Safety [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Also, I understand messing with a person's pressure point can jam up their ki flow. Wouldn't want that to happen.




Cant see how you can understand anything if you deny it exists.

Jude

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#376251 - 01/08/08 06:19 PM Re: Safety [Re: jude33]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
You don't have to believe in something to know about it. I know a bit about Greek mythology, but I don't believe Zeus ever existed.

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#376252 - 01/08/08 07:58 PM Re: Safety [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

You don't have to believe in something to know about it. I know a bit about Greek mythology, but I don't believe Zeus ever existed.




Swiftly back to the topic of pressure points.
What are they?
Do they exist?
If so what is their function?


Jude


Edited by jude33 (01/08/08 08:03 PM)

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#376253 - 01/08/08 08:07 PM Re: Safety [Re: jude33]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Pressure points and chi are like discussing science fiction to the "non-believers"... so don't waste your time. It's like people who don't believe hook punches will work until they run into one. big surprise!

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#376254 - 01/09/08 01:20 AM Re: Safety [Re: wristtwister]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Pressure points are nothing like chi.

Pressure points do exist, and knowledge of them is utilized by everyone from massage therapists to judoka. There is nothing mystical or metaphysical about them. Heck, anyone who has ever been in an armlock has experienced the effects of pressure point manipulation first hand.

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