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#375201 - 12/26/07 09:23 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: kempo_jujitsu]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


about the hook punches, a boxing coach once told me that if the opponent is at your maximum reach you should use a vertical fist to assure your big knuckles are making contact, your arm actually becomes weaker when you turn it over horizontal while extended that far. but that if hes in close..the vertical hook has no power and you really need the twist to dig it in. in either case, one prominent feature is trying to land your big knuckles on his face, or body.





That's true. Distance typically determines if the fist is vertical or horizontal. I think you're more vulnerable when throwing hooks either way, unless you've got good wrestling. Just a thought.


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#375202 - 12/29/07 07:02 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: JKogas]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
From I have learnt in MMA/NHB you have to be more of a two fisted fighter.
Well,basicaly,be able to use both hands to strike,to clinch,to pummel for position,to defend the clinch,to tie up,to defend tie ups,to control their head if you can when you sprawl etc etc.You have to have your hands ready to do it all ,fast.

Not only that..but be able to kick and defend kicks and grapple and defend grappling.

Thats the big difference which then changes your aproach to your stance and body positioning.And that will effect boxing technique and tactics how you generate power as a boxer.


Edited by matxtx (12/29/07 07:05 PM)
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#375203 - 12/29/07 07:03 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: JKogas]
copyright Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 22
Quote:

Quote:


about the hook punches, a boxing coach once told me that if the opponent is at your maximum reach you should use a vertical fist to assure your big knuckles are making contact, your arm actually becomes weaker when you turn it over horizontal while extended that far. but that if hes in close..the vertical hook has no power and you really need the twist to dig it in. in either case, one prominent feature is trying to land your big knuckles on his face, or body.





That's true. Distance typically determines if the fist is vertical or horizontal. I think you're more vulnerable when throwing hooks either way, unless you've got good wrestling. Just a thought.






What's the reason you think you need better wrestling in this instance? Is it because you've now move hips away from being squared with the opponent?

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#375204 - 12/30/07 10:56 AM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: copyright]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


What's the reason you think you need better wrestling in this instance? Is it because you've now move hips away from being squared with the opponent?





Thats definitely a big part of it. Obviously If your hips aren't squared its much more difficult to use them to sprawl. This is why I don't really like kicking all that much either. I mean its hard enough to prevent from becoming a three-legged table, never mind when you WILLINGLY become one, lol.

And while this may seem overly simplistic, when the elbows move away from the body as they do when throwing a good hook, the attack zones are exposed (Greco's five major attack or "danger" zones of wrestling). Those elbows come up and now the body is exposed for underhooks or body locks.

A classic example of this was the fight between Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes. They clinched up and Royce attempted to punch out of a more neutral position. The elbow came away from the body, Hughes shot a duck-under (one of the most basic moves in wrestling), took his back and subsequently took him down and proceeded to beat him at his own game. All of this happened simply because Royce moved his elbow away from his body at the wrong time (and of all people, Royce was trying to punch within the clinch instead of trying to get Hughes down).

In my opinion, unless you are world class, it's safer to stay with more straight line punching where distance can be used and where you can more easily minimize the vulnerability of exposing those attack zones.

Straight punching can be used at a greater distance, just outside of reach where you (or your opponent) have to take a step in to fire. Your level can be little lower to close that window and you're more squared on. I believe this makes it much safer from which to strike.

Hooks are in tight. If you get dominant position you can get away with more obviously. Watch guys like Couture use short, chopping uppercuts, hooks and overhands when he's got that collar tie or an underhook. He can do this because he's obtained good position first. If you have a neutral position or worse, an inferior position, trying to punch will just get you dropped (per Royce) against a good wrestler.

Hell, some of those guys (Sherk for example) can time and shoot under a quick jab, so you can imagine that turning your hips off from a hook or exposing that attack zone for even a second will have you fighting off of your back!

The smaller, faster guys like Sherk can shoot in and drop you in a split second. Minimizing the danger is critical IMO. Just a few thoughts....



-John

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#375205 - 12/30/07 11:42 AM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: JKogas]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539


Edited by jude33 (12/30/07 11:46 AM)

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#375206 - 12/30/07 12:12 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: jude33]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Great videos. Try throwing hooks and doing ANYTHING but keeping your hips squared on and your elbows tight against good grappler and that's basically what happens. Against guys with speed on their shots, even straight punching will open you up if your timing isn't perfect. That's why you have to have a grappling game. If you're not by now (here in almost 2008) training grappling and are sincerely interested in self-defense/preservation, you should probably think that there is something wrong with you. Seriously.

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#375207 - 12/30/07 12:44 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: JKogas]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Great videos. Try throwing hooks and doing ANYTHING but keeping your hips squared on and your elbows tight against good grappler and that's basically what happens. Against guys with speed on their shots, even straight punching will open you up if your timing isn't perfect. That's why you have to have a grappling game. If you're not by now (here in almost 2008) training grappling and are sincerely interested in self-defense/preservation, you should probably think that there is something wrong with you. Seriously.



I suppose your just generalising but I am working on my grappling game John.

And I agree. Extremely good points for further research
as usual from you,John.

I find it easier to see something being used for real than to follow a description or a demo.

Have a good New Year.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (12/30/07 12:49 PM)

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#375208 - 12/30/07 01:08 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: jude33]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


I suppose your just generalising but I am working on my grappling game John.





Absolutely I am generalizing. I realize that not everyone has the time and opportunity to work on everything.

I think it should be said that grappling training doesn't necessarily mean that one has to become a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, etc. Obviously that isn't a bad thing. However, it just means adding grappling into your striking program. If you just added the clinch, the sprawl and an understanding of basic guard work and how to disengage back to your feet from the ground, that would be enough to compliment a strong striking game.

Certainly the more one can do of anything, the better. Sometimes just shoring up some weak areas is sufficient.

One thing you can do is have people learn a basic double leg and create a drill. Have your partner wear headgear as you move around and try to hit him while he attempts to shoot in on your legs. That alone will do wonders for your ability to stay on your feet.

After you have done this a bit, add the clinch to the drill. Have people attempt to tie up with you as you avoid and strike. Then mix the two. A month of this will make anyone much harder to take down.


Quote:


And I agree. Extremely good points for further research
as usual from you,John.





I can't take credit for a thing brother, but I appreciate the kind words. I just steal things I like and use them for good training.


Quote:


I find it easier to see something being used for real than to follow a description or a demo.





That always helps. Those videos were two very spot-on illustrations of the points I was trying to make.

It would be helpful for everyone to understand the 5 attack zones and learn to defend them. I think that's very worthwhile time spent if you're a striker or a grappler.


Quote:


Have a good New Year.

Jude





Same to you friend.


-John

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#375209 - 12/31/07 12:39 PM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: JKogas]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Concerning straight punches,iv taken on the ideas of Steve Morris where the punches are cyclonic and come back to you rather than straight out.It means your are less likely to be out of position if you miss or leave gaps like Jkogas mentioned and are always set body position wise to sprawl or whatever to defend against grappling.
Also you can hit fast and powerfull and often,if done right.
There are probably clips of him doing it on his youtube page.Worth checking out for striking in an MMA/NHB setting.

Its also done on his low kick so it comes back to you making it easier to sprawl and keep good defence.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#375210 - 01/01/08 02:41 AM Re: Differences between Boxing and MMA Striking? [Re: matxtx]
kempo_jujitsu Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 1914
Loc: illinois, usa
what do you mean by cyclonic punching? maybe i'm wrong but i'm envisioning something like a straight blast or wing chun chain punching maybe?
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