FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 20 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TomRosenberg, jessylin, play, Keith_G, LeroyCFischer
22937 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
jwwmantis 2
futsaowingchun 1
Zombie Zero 1
Beefcake 1
LeroyCFischer 1
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
New Topics
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
2015 Master Yang Jwing-Ming Seminar
by jwwmantis
12/05/14 10:36 PM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by
12/27/06 11:43 AM
Your true goal
by
03/03/06 07:16 AM
Recent Posts
Freeing Hand-Wing Chun's last movements
by futsaowingchun
12/17/14 09:40 PM
Your true goal
by Beefcake
12/11/14 02:44 AM
The Beginners Guide To Stretching
by LeroyCFischer
12/04/14 02:07 AM
Forum Stats
22937 Members
36 Forums
35591 Topics
432526 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#375095 - 12/30/07 11:03 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: pathfinder7195]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Pathfinder,
Chi is the most volatile issue on the boards... the two camps, those that believe it exists and those that don't are polarized worse than the positive and negative of magnetism.

For some people, they have to be able to explain everything in exact detail and know why. They cannot simply accept the facts as they are, and must have a scientific explanation of everything in the finite world. To them, I'm still waiting on the "scientific proof" of how the universe was created... there are lots of "scientific theories", but nothing that shows positive scientific proof of anything... it's ALL theory. Others simply believe whatever their religion taught them about the creation of the universe, and go on with their daily lives. To them, it isn't necessary to prove how every molecule of the world happened, or how it continues to exist, they simply accept the fact that it does, and go on with life.

Clearly, the Tibetan Monks have something with their body control that is "out of the ordinary". They call it CHI. I don't lose a moment's sleep over whether or not it's "real" or not, I simply admire their ability to do what they do. Clearly, they have the ability...(proved scientifically, but of course only if you accept the research) to do these extrordinary things. Duplicating that in martial applications somehow has a total disconnect for the "disbelievers", and they have to completely recycle the argument every single time it comes up.

Quote:

The reason I use all these quotes is because I am not a scientist and have no research conducted in this area so finding the best available scientific studies is crucial.




My question is "why?". Clearly, you won't change the mind of those that "looked inside their radios and didn't see any radio waves, so they don't exist"... even though they can see the results and develop the information they have received from the broadcast.

Years ago, I went to a seminar that one of the Judo masters from the Kodokan was making, and he had with him a Zen master from one of his local temples. After the Judo class, the Zen teacher gave a lecture that was translated by one of the entourage, and as he delivered the lecture, stood with his hand in a pot of boiling water. When he finished, he withdrew his hand, dried it off, and it was not even red from the heat of the water. "This is the power of the mind" was his "closing statement".

That might not be "scientific proof" but it sure as hell got my attention, and was a very dynamic demonstration of what he could do. I wouldn't attempt to scientifically describe what happened, but (again) it really got my attention and was done as part of the "mental training" aspect of the Judo clinic.

There are lots of film available of the "fire walkers" in Japan, who display their skills at festivals, but the "scientific community" always dismiss it as a "trick" rather than a demonstration... so how you craft the language of the argument has a lot to do with whether something is "real" or not. The whole "global warming" scam is a "scientific consensus" of people who needed a new avenue to scam money from the governments, so they concocted this "chicken little" story about climate change to give them a vehicle for it. They have no concept of scale, actual meteorological experience, or climate data to back up their "theory" and governments are "falling in line" simply from being scared by the nay-sayers or lining up at the feed trough for "grants" to do "research". It's the biggest boondoggle of all time.

As for "scientific proof", it depends on whether or not you choose to believe it... not the actual facts involved. Just like global warming, chi "vendors" and disbelievers have their beliefs and will ridicule anyone who offers "scientific" analysis. It's how science is refuted.
"My science is better than your science"... like children in a schoolyard.

I wouldn't get too upset about it... just keep training. If you believe that chi works, use it... if not, do what you're taught and work with that.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

Top
#375096 - 12/30/07 11:59 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: pathfinder7195]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

A bad research paper is just what you think, a good research paper is what you believe backed up by the best research possible. The study I posted you called "bs". By doing that you did not "dispute things" like you may think. Like you have been saying where is the "science".




The B/S remark was aimed at the fact that so much money is being allocated to that research when there are better uses in the medical world for that kind of money.

Either way have a good New Year.

Jude

Top
#375097 - 12/30/07 12:08 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: wristtwister]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Hi

I am skeptical. I have in the past had the onset of Hyperthermia. There were two of us. The other guy had to go to hospital.
So to tell me that people can live out in the cold takes some believing.


But there is a lot in what you say.
Positive thoughts of chi moving about the body would have an effect on the endocrine stystem in a plus way.
I have seen the results of hypnosis from a friend who wouldnt tell lies. He looked as though he has been in a deep sleep. His mind was so clear. If this could be achieved by a person doing it them selves then I am all for it.

Jude

Top
#375098 - 12/30/07 06:14 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: pathfinder7195]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Pathfinder:

Lower the heart rate sure, lower my resperation rate easily, raise my temprature, a little. The way, manner, technique which they use, not even close (yet). More experience please...

Jeff

Top
#375099 - 01/01/08 04:26 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: pathfinder7195]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
I mentally massage my buttocks once a day to keep them firm and supple.

Just kidding.

Actually, the idea that mental training can enhance physical performance is neither new nor controversial. Everyone from gymnasts to goldfers to football players use visualization, relaxation, and other techniques to help their performance and/or recovery.

What we need to be leery of are claims that run contrary to established scientific knwoledge or plain old common sense. Unfortunately, martial arts are rife with this kind of goofiness.

Several years ago, Black Belt magazine ran an interview with a Chinese martial arts master who claimed that "in ancient times" people lived to be 100, 150, or even 200 years old, but no longer did because we had "lost the way." Even more jaw dropping the statement itself was the fact the BB interviewer let such blatent stupidity pass without comment!

Top
#375100 - 01/02/08 04:27 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: wristtwister]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
wristtwister,

The definition of the word "theory" in science differs from its definition when used in the vernacular. In popular usage, the word "theory" means little more than one's personal opinion; in science, a theory is a complex model of how some aspect of the universe works, which is supported by a large body of empirical observation and which has survived multiple attempts at falsification. This is a case of one word having two totally different meanings--like the "mouse" that eats cheese versus the device that glides atop your mousepad.

Clearly, you either honestly do not understand the difference or don't want to. Science is NOT a matter of what we choose to believe. Global warming is NOT a scam.

How can you not believe in something like global warming, for which a mountain of objective evidence exists, yet be impressed by a boiling water stunt that any semi-talented stage magician can duplicate?

I am genuinely floored by this!

Top
#375101 - 01/02/08 05:00 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: fileboy2002]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA


Agreed, Fileboy. How people can ignore science that has been proven, over and over - even by our current administration - is beyond me. The overwhelming, world-wide consensus is that global warming is very much real.

But they're all wrong and Grady is right.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#375102 - 01/03/08 05:15 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



wristtwister,

This is a case of one word having two totally different meanings--like the "mouse" that eats cheese versus the device that glides atop your mousepad.






Hi

Fileboy with all due respect why didint you apply this to the different definition's of chi which I proved instead of constant useage of "chi doesnt exist"?.

Can I ask why all of a sudden now do you choose to use it?

Chi= the name given to the vapour rising from a corpse.
Chi= the name of energy.

Quote:



Clearly, you either honestly do not understand the difference or don't want to.




I got the same impression from what you were stating about chi.

Quote:


Science is NOT a matter of what we choose to believe. Global warming is NOT a scam.





Global warming might not be a scam but the amount of money spent by people doing the research might be considered a scam. Please note I said "amount"

Do you have any idea what the cost was?


And given the findings of Earths History hasnt the Earth gone through the same process of warming up and cooling down?

How did they prove/dissprove this?

What do you think is the name of the processes that is said to occur app so many thousands of years that might cause the Earth to heat up or cool down ?

Why is this?


I am a mere student but might I ask do you know why it is this time they are saying the Earth is said to be getting warmer? A simple sentence might be all that is required.


Quote:



How can you not believe in something like global warming, for which a mountain of objective evidence exists, yet be impressed by a boiling water stunt that any semi-talented stage magician can duplicate?






Would you care to explain how they duplicate this?

Would you care to explain fire walkers? How do they do it?


File boy with all due respect if a person is going to bring something down that someone states then to my mind please state why and not just use pure quotes from what everybody reads in the papers.

Is the Earth getting warmer because of the reason certain scientists are stating or is it because it has gone through this same proccess through its history according to certain strains of science?


I have asked number of questions. Students tend to do this.
If you do indeed teach please do me the honour of answering them.

The questions I have asked I have researched the answers.


Quote:


I mentally massage my buttocks once a day to keep them firm and supple.




From what I can gather that is the Internal method of doing it.

Might I suggest you try to say train back squats with a good weigth for reps you would have the benefits of both internal and external training.
Might end up with better gluteus , maximus , medius , minimus , piriformis sacrum coccyx

If that is your end goal then go for it.

Just kidding.



Jude.


Edited by jude33 (01/03/08 05:43 AM)

Top
#375103 - 01/03/08 06:38 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I am genuinely floored by this!




I might also feel the same way if you cant/dont decide to answer the questions or even get the incorrect answers and/or base everything on information given out by the media.

Jude

Top
#375104 - 01/03/08 08:00 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Matt, people's biggest problem is understanding the difference between when an individual has a 'theory' based on intuition that sounds agreeable to those with a vested interest in that view.

vs.

a Scientific Theory from a community of qualified in the feild, that is established over the test of time, challenged from every conceivable angle, and withstood the scrutany of sceptics.


see, everyone mistakes the word 'theory' to mean 'opinion', so people with non-qualified, adhoc or emotion-based opinions with agenda try to mis-use the word 'theory' to propetuate this confusion and demote what the real Theories had to go thru to become scientifically accepted Theories.


classic example was the politically and emotionally charged 'intelligent design' debate.

same thing with global warming. It cost money, lots of money for companies to change...especially utility and fuel companies. Spending a small fortune to prevent or at the least, cast doubt on the perceived need to change is very much worth it to them. It's much much harder and expensive to buy out a whole scientific community than it is to buy individual government officials with power.


The fact that the world is moving ahead and trying to do something, while the US is still keeping the issue up for debate and fuel/utility companies are reporting record profits, should tell us something as to how corrupt the US government has been progressively getting.


people who have republican loyalties based on whatever things they think their party represent, have falling for the scam hook-line and sinker.

"well, global warming is just a 'theory' anyhow."

yeah, ok, 'just' a theory...so lets keep burning more of the earth and putting it in the air and see what happens. Then, when the 'theory' becomes a naked eye observable fact, we can attribute it to something else....just like how people develop skill and LATER they attribute it to using 'Chi'.

Top
Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga