FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 39 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
old1, Leonar, ManLar, Vimido, raya
22925 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 4
Ronin1966 3
Victor Smith 1
swordy 1
AndyLA 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Martial News
by Matakiant
09/23/14 06:42 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
Recent Posts
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
Yesterday at 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by cxt
10/10/14 10:08 AM
The Karate punch
by Ronin1966
10/09/14 03:16 PM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Tan,Bong,Fuk & Wu Sao
by futsaowingchun
09/30/14 12:10 AM
Wing Chun-internal training
by futsaowingchun
09/23/14 09:01 PM
Forum Stats
22925 Members
36 Forums
35582 Topics
432509 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#375145 - 01/13/08 12:24 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: jude33]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Either way I cant find it




Found it.

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...rt=all&vc=1

Quote:

I ponder if that gives Ed any intellectual copyright, rights?




Don't give Ed any ideas.

Sorin.

UN? that piece sounded like what Kofe Annan would have written.

Why do you lean towards it's existence? Have you felt it? If not, how can you be sure?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#375146 - 01/13/08 07:18 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



10 mins. smiling with your eyes closed"
does receiving oral sex count?


"10 mins. concentrating on your finger-tips (without the smile)"
Happens every New England winter in a non-heated dojo...and I can't even imagine 2-person kobudo with freezing temps.


BP, people don't have to follow some kind of arbitrary initiation ritual to understand IMA concepts.





Found it!!

I sort of lost track of the conversation at that time for some reason.

Jude



Edited by jude33 (01/13/08 07:23 AM)

Top
#375147 - 01/14/08 10:46 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: jude33]
pathfinder7195 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 336
Loc: T.C Michigan, U.S
Great post Sorin.

This article talks about the monks being able to raise their outside body temperature in their fingers and toes by 17degrees while keeping their core temp at 98.6. Dr. Benson gives a few ideas on how he thinks the monks are able to do that.
http://focus.hms.harvard.edu/1996/Mar1_1996/Off_the_Quad.html

This is a new study by five neuroscientists studying the Dalai Lama's monks to see if meditation can rewire the brain making some connections stronger while making others weaker. Not by physical activity but purely mental. Both links are the same study the second one has a bit of flair.
http://www.news.wisc.edu/13890
http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/News/Meditation_Alters_Brain_WSJ_11-04.htm


The very first study I posted at the start of this thread I always found fascinating. What amazes me most is that the researchers are studying the by product of the monk's meditation. The reason they go into this meditation is not to produce heat but for something else. What? I'm not sure. For now the real reason for this meditation cannot be studied because it would be purely subjective at this point. The by product of this meditation alone is more than enough for the re searcher's to try to explain.

When asked how the monks do this they always reply by saying they are using their "chi". Whether or not "chi" exists these monks are capable of doing something that stumps modern science but at the same time giving neuroscientists a chance to learn and study how powerfull the mind can be.

My only intent for this thread is to show that there is qualified research being done by the top Universities on individuals, mainly Buddhist monks who claim that they can use their "chi". I just hope everybody enjoyed the studies regardless if they believe them or not.

Butterfly thanks for all the first hand experience given.

Top
#375148 - 01/15/08 12:58 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: pathfinder7195]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I think the argument on chi is pretty silly. Whether it does or doesn't exist doesn't matter. It's symantics really. When I do my techniques and incorporate the "Ki" aspects of them they work better, period. So, why does it matter if you call it Ki, Qi,Chi, proper body mehcanics/physiology/kenisiology, etc? If you get the desired results, I don't see the point of arguing the terminology of common experiences. One person sees magic, one person sees tricks, one person sees good form in technique, and one sees internal connections of energy to the universe at large; they're all right if they get the results they were aiming for.

Just MHO. Had to chime in because it seems like this argument is perpetually started and restarted and renamed. I don't see the point in continuing arguments so heatedly about what I see as a fight over what the correct name of these functions are.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#375149 - 01/15/08 11:35 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: JMWcorwin]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

I think the argument on chi is pretty silly. Whether it does or doesn't exist doesn't matter.




It matters because there are people, other than yourself, who wants to explore new things (no matter how outlandish) and hopefully when found to add them to the general pool of human knowledge, whether for it's betterment or otherwise.

The great western explorers of the last four centuries set off for parts of the then "unknown" world not knowing whether they would fall off into a bottomless abyss at the edge, all for the sake of finding where pepper, gloves and nutmeg came from. These acts of innocent curiosity (fired no doubt by unbridled commercialism) changed the world, east and west.

A chinese king in the 16th century for domestic political reasons put a stop to chinese geo-political explorations by burning all large sea-going ships. The world might have been very different had another king been on the dragon throne.

So you see, the explorations of things like Chi goes beyond the mere individual perfection of a few martial art techniques by a particular martial artist (which in 95% of cases will not be used in a real combat situation anyway) If the claims of chi are real, as the monks have demonstrated to a scientist, then it would be scientific dereliction not to explore it further and see where this thing fits in the general scheme of scientific noesis.

This "chi" moves in my body at will and I have no doubt; my problem is being able to say what exactly it is from a scientific perspective and the scientists are doing me a great favor for one day I will not only feel it, but know what it is as well.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#375150 - 01/16/08 01:01 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: JMWcorwin]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
If someone chooses to take a conceptual model as a training aide for physically learning something and hype it into a supernatural force...then all the power to them.

in comparrison, if someone can grow up as moral, just, honest and socially compatable as someone else - and lets say the only difference between them is their spiritual belief of where that strength comes from in order to empower them to be a good/full person...then it's a safe bet the source of that strength is interchangeable.


I don't discount the usefulness of a conceptual model for learning aide - I question hype surrounding it in order to capture and ensnare minds.

Top
#375151 - 01/16/08 02:30 PM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Quote:

It matters because there are people, other than yourself, who wants to explore new things




I'm all for exploring new things; never said I wasn't. I also didn't say I didn't believe in chi. I only said that arguing it's existance or non existence seems counter productive to me. If you're Catholic and I'm Muslim, what do you think the chances are of one of us convincing the other to convert? This argument over chi's existence is similar. Both sides have strong beliefs, either pro or con, and the arguement just goes in circles. I've just read too many threads of people trying to convince the other side they're wrong.

Explore it. Please explore it. I have, though I wouldn't compare my study of it anything like a fully funded Harvard program. Look into it for YOURSELF and make your own decisions. (that's advice for all not directed at you personally BP.)
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#375152 - 01/17/08 05:40 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: JMWcorwin]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Fair enough and good training to you.

However I see nothing wrong in having a good argument (if done in a civil manner as befitting people who are martial artists and a gentleman and of course lady, the latter of which generally behave themselves )

I for one am not looking for a 'victory' as the martial arts, be it EMA or IMA, is a matter of self-discovery and hopefully accomplishments and I don't see myself as out to save the martial arts world as I myself can see a long long road ahead though I've been at it for almost half a century.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#375153 - 01/23/08 07:27 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
now all we have to do Is see if we can focus our internal energy in different ways.
This study shows that we can control our body conciously, Which I kinda think is just something the human body can do, yay end of story.
But this flow of force that supposedly runs through the human body, We have yet to determine
a) if it exists?
b) what are it's relations to physical matter?
c) what laws does it follow?
I could ask the question "anybody have answers?" but i can tell no one does.
The concept has been around for so long without being disproven that it's hard to ignore,
but it has been around equally long without being proven, that it is hard to take at face value.

I can't help but wonder. Are we ever going to find the truth behind it?
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

Top
#375154 - 01/25/08 12:10 AM Re: CHI? Tibetan Monks, Harvard, scientific study. [Re: JMWcorwin]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Judes thoughts.

Quote:

I think the argument on chi is pretty silly.




I dont think it is silly. Chi is defined in one sense as energy. In other ways people have took the meaning of chi to wards silly. The definition should be made clear.

Quote:



does or doesn't exist doesn't matter.





The term/ definition of chi as energy exists.

Quote:


It's symantics really.





I disagree. Its definition.

Quote:



When I do my techniques and incorporate the "Ki" aspects of them they work better, period. So, why does it matter if you call it Ki, Qi,Chi, proper body mehcanics/physiology/kenisiology, etc?






I think that physical exercise is required. I think in the experiments I have looked at require some form of physical
preperation as in the building up of brown fat before the
mind could be used. How the monks used their mind I havent even touched on. Yet.

Quote:


If you get the desired results, I don't see the point of arguing the terminology of common experiences. One person sees magic, one person sees tricks, one person sees good form in technique, and one sees internal connections of energy to the universe at large; they're all right if they get the results they were aiming for.





I think there is difference. The tricksters should be recognised. If there is a way meditaion can work it should be explored.

Internal energy connection to the universe isnt such a flowery dream as portrayed. If chi is a term for energy then so is the universe full of energy. Proven by science.





Just MHO. Had to chime in because it seems like this argument is perpetually started and restarted and renamed. I don't see the point in continuing arguments so heatedly about what I see as a fight over what the correct name of these functions are.




I think it is wide open to argument. If people wish to practice what I deem it as tricks then fine. That should be brought out and recognised as such.
That doesnt detract from the fact that correct meditation might be a good thing if it can be learned.

Jude

Top
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga