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#375041 - 01/02/08 09:44 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: StuartA]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

Hosinsul and one step still need a certain amount of co-operation and 'playing along'



No they dont, they need a certain amount of restraint on the defenders part and they have limits if thats what you mean. The attacker can still attack full power if required and strike to hit rather than pull it! We do both from a parallel ready stance, so no elongated motion either.. simply kihup & attaack immediatly (no kihup for hosinsul). What do you mean by playing along? Stuart





Thats how they should IMO be done. No talking, with the attacker trying to hit the defender. No other way. If not, then it is probably a waste of time & counter-productive.

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#375042 - 01/03/08 08:21 AM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: StuartA]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Quote:

Another problems with training applications for "first instances" is the lack of surprise... so a lot simply end up as drills anyway. They can be used "in fight" but I dont believe personally thats their main purpose.. that being to stop a fight before it starts.. after that, thats the sparring/fighting side of things. two different things that overlap somewhat!





Yes.That makes more sense.

Quote:

I get ya.. but I think you may be confusing it with Masutatsu Oyama and his style... though he was Korean!





Mmm,im not that wet behind the ears haha.

I read or heard somewhere that General Choi asked Mas Oyama to be part of what he was doing.Dont know how true it is or why he did not.

Quote:

No they dont, they need a certain amount of restraint on the defenders part and they have limits if thats what you mean. The attacker can still attack full power if required and strike to hit rather than pull it! We do both from a parallel ready stance, so no elongated motion either.. simply kihup & attaack immediatly (no kihup for hosinsul). What do you mean by playing along?




We do it like that too.
I would rather spar at all ranges.

Yes,the defender having limits.And the attacker.Thats a certain amount of co-operation.And
theres the 'oh you hit me im now knocked out or been stopped' element.Its still there.The playing along .No matter how close you get it still feels false IMO compared to all range sparring.
Yea,it might be the closet way to train but its still the problem with the 'too deadly' stuff.
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#375043 - 01/03/08 10:57 AM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: matxtx]
StuartA Offline
Member

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 443
Quote:

Mmm,im not that wet behind the ears haha.



Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you were, just that it wasa maxim that went with Oyama.. "If he punched you, he broke some rib, if you blocked his puch, he broke you arm" (Or similar)!

Quote:

I read or heard somewhere that General Choi asked Mas Oyama to be part of what he was doing.Dont know how true it is or why he did not.



AFAIA thats true as Gen Choi wanted to bring all Koreans under the TKD banner, though Oyama was said to have felt indebted to those that took him under their wing (the Japanese) and he was nationalized to Japan so didnt switch!

Quote:

Yes,the defender having limits.And the attacker.Thats a certain amount of co-operation.And
theres the 'oh you hit me im now knocked out or been stopped' element.Its still there.The playing along.



I see what you mean.. though I see it more as safety rather than simply palying along.. I guess as students we just gotta try and get as close as we can without doing major damage to our oppoenets. We occassionally do it full contact wearing hogu's, though that still limits the head shots, but its interesting to see if those blocks really will work!

Quote:

No matter how close you get it still feels false IMO compared to all range sparring. Yea,it might be the closet way to train but its still the problem with the 'too deadly' stuff.



Well, if sensible, the 'too deadly' stuff can be incorporated into sparring as well, we regularly include things like eye gouges and elbows!

Stuart
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#375044 - 01/03/08 11:02 AM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: matxtx]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

Quote:

I get ya.. but I think you may be confusing it with Masutatsu Oyama and his style... though he was Korean!




I read or heard somewhere that General Choi asked Mas Oyama to be part of what he was doing.Dont know how true it is or why he did not.




Yes this is true. He was Korean, with a Japanese name, which was common during the occupation period. Even Ambassador Choi had a Japanese name. My take on it was that since Mr. Choi was a fervent nationalist & had deep hatred for the Japanese, it was all part of his movement to re-instill national pride & bring back Korean culture. He was a shrewd politican & it was most likely part of a propaganda program. As to why he declined to work with Mr. Choi, I am not sure.


Edited by Supremor (01/03/08 12:07 PM)

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#375045 - 01/07/08 08:43 AM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: ITFunity]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Quote:

As to why he declined to work with Mr. Choi, I am not sure.




Maybe because Oyama considered himself Japanese and his loyalty lay there (as he often wrote); maybe it would be dishonourable to his former Senseis or because it would mean putting all his hard work and his organisation under the name and control of another person.
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#375046 - 01/07/08 01:18 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: trevek]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
You could be right. From my understanding, Mr. Choi wanted it his way. That was not much of an appeal to some others, especially those who had accomplished a lot on their own.

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#375047 - 01/07/08 07:39 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: ITFunity]
AntonieBlack Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 13
You know, I don't think Taekwondo has any faults and this is why i say that.

There is no holy grail of martial arts that can teach you everything you need to know. MMA is not a pure martial art. You wouldn't call a mutt a pure bred pitt bull. Each taekwondo dojo has its own uniqueness, but the big thing they all generate is power with you kicks. Muay Tai-if spelled correctly- is better for knee and elbow strikes. Judo for grappling. I know TKD isn't complete and you have a great chance of losing to a person if they can get you on the ground. But average kick from your average black belt in TKD gives the same force as a 25mph car crash. Knee strikes from Muay Thai are 35 mph. Not made up numbers, scientifically proven on crash test dummies. Most MMA participants aren't proficient in a single martial art any way. Again I emphasize MOST. We as a society are always looking for the quick fix and it rarely is there. Diet pills lead to heart attacks later in life. So does red bull whose main ingredient comes from bull bile, the juices in one of their organs. I saw a comment earlier about too much padding, but anyone who's fought on a state or national level knows that [censored] doesn't help. It just helps in preventing bone breaks and again it doesn't work. Go to a state TKD tournament and look for the guy who gets kicked and you see his will to fight leave his body, then talk to me about a fault. I will admit Olympic TKD is watered down, but because there must be limits. Do you really want to see someone get their balls crushed or get dragged aroound by an eye socket. The only weakness in any martial art is that restraint must be used in competition. After all, there is not one martial art-I've heard of and i could be wrong-that was started just for sport. They were all for survival purposes. The fault lies in the person not the martial art. 5'4" people shouldn't do TKD. a 6'5 person probably shouldn't do judo
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#375048 - 01/07/08 07:52 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: AntonieBlack]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

The fault lies in the person not the martial art.




I am not so sure one can blmae the novice student who thinks they are joining a MA's school for SD. They have no experience, so they can not be blamed, especially if the school advertises SD. How would they know. Now I feel that people should do their homework when they make a major investment, like the MAs. However, a newcomer usually has little to judge by. So I think it is the fault of the MA school. Many who rip off their students & are just in business to make money, baby sit kids & build, overrated phony self esteem. JMHO

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#375049 - 01/07/08 08:48 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
After a few years trainning you could probably blame the student for not opening his/her own eyes and doing research adn trying to fill in the gaps. Initially though it is clearly the instructors who are better at marketing than actually teaching.

I don't beleive I am saying this but really do you think most parents actually want their kids to do hard trainning. I don't really think so. I think they are looking for baby sitting and a perception that they are doing something positive for their children's mental developement. I actually have heard that people want to have the homework checked and grades checked before belts will be awarded. Those instructor that we love to trash are really just giving the consumer what they want.

It is unfortunate that they choose to use the name of Tae Kwon Do or martial arts to practice under.

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#375050 - 01/07/08 09:05 PM Re: Taekwondo's Faults [Re: AntonieBlack]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by AntonieBlack -

Quote:

Most MMA participants aren't proficient in a single martial art any way.






Staggeringly inaccurate statement. Do you know anything about MMA?
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