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#374683 - 12/20/07 12:41 AM Back to basic: Taison's journey
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Dear all,

Sorry I haven't been able to talk to you guys for the last couple of weeks, maybe month, because frankly, life has hit me so damn hard, it's keeping me on me knees and won't let me stand up.

Thailand's a bit shaky at the moment, no clear government, inflation, corruption everywhere etc etc.

But the worst news or maybe the best news is that through this last month of not doing anything (because frankly I couldn't even afford a meal at McDonald's, sitting on a bus was a luxury) I've been able to rethink my life a bit.

Since I was a kid, I've always tried my hardest to find the best martial art. But there isn't any. So growing up I found myself literally thrown into some arts like judo, jujutsu, Muay Boran, karate, and I've never been able to stay long enough to become, how do you say? dedicated practitioner.

Sure, when I did Judo, I called myself judo-ka. Nowadays, when people ask I just say "I don't really care, I'll hand you yer arse anyway".

Fast forward to the present time.

My weight has dropped quite a lot, some of my old clothes fit me now. What's the phenomenon. I've lost weight. Not just fat but muscle as well. You can imagine how hard it is to maintain any type of muscle mass when you work hard and under nourished. Before you think I look like some kind of Etiopian, no I don't. I went down from 90kg to somewhere around 82kg.

So what's this topic about?

I've joined a boxing gym and will stay there for a long while. This post will be my daily, or near daily blog about my boxing progression.

Anyway, I'm getting older and in-fighting won't do it anymore. There are kids, twice as fast, twice as strong as me. I might as well throw my gloves at them and grab a chair but heck, I've got to adapt.

So this will be my journey, stay tuned if you want to see what this little Eurasian is doing, and how much he's suffering just for the heck of it.

OUT-BOXING!

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374684 - 12/21/07 11:28 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
Thanks Tyson hopefully you'll bring this, my favourite part of the forum a bit more life with your topic
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

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#374685 - 12/21/07 11:39 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Sorry to hear about your troubles, Tomas. Training has always helped my get through rough times. Keep at it, and I think keeping a journal will help, too.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#374686 - 12/22/07 06:15 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: MattJ]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
You said you will be staying there, are you doing it as a career now? If you are I wish you all the best and look forward to reading this thread weekly.

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#374687 - 12/23/07 07:22 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Oh brother can I relate! I got a new job around 9 months ago. Since then I have been to around 3 martial arts classes!!!

Things have gotten even worse since the run up to Christmas, I just don't have time to myself. I think I got to go to the gym once in the last 10 days. I have lost weight too because I altered my diet as I wasn't training as much, so I didn't feel as hungry or need to eat as much (which was a lot when I was going full throttle!)

Still I shouldn't complain, job is good and they are paying for me to go to college part time. In fact its pretty great that way!

But my lifestyle has changed completely.

As the man once said Taison:

"Tough times don't last... tough people do."

Am sure with all your experience you will do well now with boxing. Let us know how it goes!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#374688 - 12/23/07 10:13 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Prizewriter]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Well merry christmas you cheerful blokes!

I've changed my diet quite a lot this last few weeks. I've avoided rice (which is extremely hard in this culture as all dishes are made based on rice), so my daily intake of carbs comes from noodles.

For example, yesterday, I woke up at 11:30, I had Pad Thai (Thai fried noodles) for lunch, and for dinner I had two spoonful of rice, with teriyaki chicken.

I try to maintain a steady supply of water and protein but try to cut down on the excess amount of carb. Carb for lunch is ok, but dinner, only two spoonful. That's the minimum I can go, or I'll wake up in the morn with a headache.

In the last two weeks I've gone from 88 to 82kg, so my goal of reaching 75 isn't too impossible, in fact it may be doable.

I've been working on jabs and crosses most of the time, totally ignoring my shovel hooks and hooks, opting to stay on my toes and dancing around the center of the ring instead of being in the middle and pushing towards my opponent. I thought 12 rounds before was doable, now, 5 rounds if friggin' impossible. I need to do more marathon running or something.

It's a pain really. I can't throw many multiple shots anymore. Usually it's 1-2-3 and then I've got to move out again, or these kids just clobber me with a dozen hits. I'm lucky if I can land any of those 3 hits.

Oh well, at least I'm trying.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374689 - 12/24/07 04:19 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
pad thai yummy. i love hoi tort they cook/serve at the same cart where you buy pad thai.
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#374690 - 05/11/08 01:53 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: grumbleweed]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Taison's reporting back his progress;

Current Weight; 77kg
Height; 168cm ish

Woohoo! Weight gone down, and I've somehow grown half a centimetre (??)

After doing the whole outboxing thing i've discovered 2 things;

1) You need a hell of a lot of stamina
2) I'm not enjoying it much

So I decided to change my routine around a month or two back.

Instead of long-distance jogging, I've changed to short distance sprinting (my dog's enjoying it) and heavier weights training.

At first it was hard, but I am able now to go back toe-to-toe again in-fighting my way through the rounds. True 5 rounds is do-able, but damn, it's hard.

Another change is that I've totally dig my left lead hook now. It's THE most powerful weapon in my arsenal at this moment. I'm doing things Rocky Balboa this time around, lots and lots of body shots in order to get that opening for a face shot with my lead hook.

So the things I've changed is;

1) Heavier emphasis on my left hand
2) In-fighting in orthodox (Totally new for me)
3) Training emphasis on body shots
4) Clinching emphasis

I have carved quite a name for myself in the gym for using out-boxing (Annoying red-haired b@stard who won't go toe-to-toe) and I just surprised people by evading them and then just going berserk on them. I haven't unloaded a barrage of body shots since back in 2005 and being able to do that again is just a fantastic feeling.

However, I need to work on a new guard. The normal guard isn't quite working in close range. I'm finding myself hit quite often when I try to use my rear hand. I'm going to experiment with peek-a-boo.

Stay tuned!

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374691 - 05/11/08 10:46 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
shills11 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Glasgow Scotland
"peek-a-boo"

Keeping it old school I see!
I too think my lead hook is one of my more powerfull weapons and like to use 3-3-2 or 3-2-3 combos but I'm sure this baffles some guys as I'm very tall and should really be using my reach advantage BUT as you say nothing is quite as satisfying as landing a body head combination. Peek a boo can be quite heavy on the legs and I find this quite difficult to adapt to as I'm sure you will from the Muay Thai as if I leave my left leg too heavy I just get murdered with low leg kicks
_________________________
Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward

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#374692 - 05/12/08 05:04 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: shills11]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Yes,

I rarely look on more modern boxers for techniques, the 50's are more inspiring but I got to admit that Lewis is a sight.

Now for lead hooks;

My combos consists of feints; lots and lots of feints.

1; jab
2; cross
3; lead hook
4; rear hook


3, feint3, 2
1, feint2, 3
feint2, 3, feint3, 2
feint2, 3, 3

Are some of my more common combos I use.

Currently I'm doing Queensbury boxing, but these techniques are easily transfered to kickboxing I've discovered. Just throw in kicks instead of feints a few times and it'll drive your opponent psycho.

It's all about psyching and harrassing.

Peekaboo, seriously, seems to be effective in Queensbury boxing but lacks A LOT in kickboxing. Lead leg exposed with too much weight on it. I wish it would translate as well as flicker does (Hanmi stance in Karate term).

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374693 - 05/13/08 09:08 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Keep at it, Tomas! Good job.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#374694 - 05/14/08 09:43 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: MattJ]
Tom2199 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 834
Loc: England
Good job on the Gym Taison i hope you become part of the furniture eventually.

Dont stop training will you? lay off the crappy foods, the thai lifestyle is amazing for adapting around your training, do it for yourself bro!

and i will be using your feints
_________________________
Vet

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#374695 - 05/14/08 10:48 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Always feels good to get back on the horse!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#374696 - 05/23/08 10:59 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: BrianS]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Been working my back muscles for grappling. .

Man it's good to have a strong back for clinching and stuff. Really helps doing those, err, what you call it? Chin ups? you know when you hang from a bar and pull yourself up.

Anyway, my back sore's as hell but it's fun.

Technique wise I'm trying to work both hands for cross but it seems my left hand isn't designed for cross somehow. No problem with hook but it's hell trying to deliver a strong cross. It either is good form but no strength, or it completely misses the target.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374697 - 06/18/08 03:46 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
tyciol Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 15
Loc: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Scrapping with people who have natural talent is awesome, because it forces you to adapt and also necessitates skills as well.
_________________________
-Tyciol (too new for a signature)

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#374698 - 06/22/08 03:21 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: tyciol]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Change of course!

Doing kicking now so here I come Karate, TKD and who knows what!

More info can be found in the karate section.

I'm going to supplement boxing with those kicking techniques.

See what'll happen.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374699 - 07/14/08 09:30 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Discovered that the "cover up" technique from can be used well in karate when, excuse my rude way of putting it, when the sh!t hits the fan. However due to the open mats where I have mostly sparred is open I is possible to use a technique I copied from TKD; retreat jump, shuffle and kick.

I've also noticed it's a lot easier using grappling against a karate-ka with kicker instincts than one with a tendency to 'box' his way around.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374700 - 07/14/08 09:36 AM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

I've also noticed it's a lot easier using grappling against a karate-ka with kicker instincts than one with a tendency to 'box' his way around.




I agree. Gotta watch out for uppercuts when going for a shoot on someone that knows how to punch. Kicks are much easier to avoid or cut off.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#374701 - 07/14/08 10:21 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Also noticed though~
'Kickers' are a lot easier to keep in the clinch than boxers.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374702 - 08/13/08 07:08 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
itfoldschool Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 20
Loc: Maryland
Wow, Mr. Taison, you're living my dream!
Thanks for sharing!

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#374703 - 08/21/08 01:50 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: itfoldschool]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Aww..

Unless you consider being a chef apprentice with a low salary, and no permanent residence your dream, then yes, I am living your dream

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374704 - 08/21/08 02:26 PM Taison's Journey; A new path? [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I don't know how or where to begin;

Basically, I'll start with a little update of myself for you new, and old, members;

I've had my difficulties in my life. Failure after failure. I've never been anyone special. After the loss of my mother, the only thing I've discovered was more social impedement and lack of support. The only thing I call a family was my master, who due to political reasons, had to relocate.

I've been wandering, in my journey, alone. I've spent a total of 2 years training, researching, refining, conditioning based on his small doctrines that he left me.

Now, due to my financial difficulties, I'm stuck here in Pattaya now, my town of 'upbrining'.

I've been trying my hardest to find a new art, to learn more. But I've failed. Again. WTF?

Then I had this vision (day dream?). It's my time to put what I've learnt together into a system. No no, I'm not going to create my own style or anything, hehe, I don't believe in them. But I do believe in proper training, also a man can not become more without assistance.

John Kogas, a senior member here, is my inspiration. He has a group of people, who takes every theory and idea, and throws it out on the mat and see if it works. That's my dream.

Anyway, I need help here to formulate my thoughts and many others;

Basically, I was considering setting up an informal training group consisting of MMA style training but not focused entirely on sport, but also self-defense. Following this post will be my philosophy and other mumbo jumbo my mind can produce this late at night.

So here's my new journey and my doctrine.

~Taison
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374705 - 08/21/08 03:13 PM Re: Taison's Journey; A new path? [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
The Principles

  • Economy of motion
  • Minimum Effort, Maximum Effect
  • Simplicity
  • Directness
  • Kuzushi
  • No limitations, no rules, totality

Ever since I started MA, these have been my principles. Anything new must fall within these principles or it is immediately discarded.

I'd like to go into technical details;

Unlike many martial artists, I belive in order to become a good fighter, you need sound knowledge and experience of all the ranges. Sure, everyone has a weakness, but many arts have limitations to their different ranges which makes you unable to express yourself. For example; I'm not very good at ground-fighting if I'm restricted by rules like Judo's newaza. However, I have a tendency to become extremely efficient in it if the rule of 'Ground n' Pound' is allowed because I am, deep down, a striker.

I don't like things that takes ages to learn, or is only efficient in theory. It must work now or soon, and it must have a high percentage of success.

I don't believe in anyone needing to train for years to become reasonably efficient in any art. An art must be like a tool; you feel akward at first, then shortly after it just 'clicks' into place and feel natural. This only happens if you allow adaptability, which many training regimes dissallows.

I'm not going to discuss the physical attribute training in this thread, but rather, I'm going to stick to the technical training of things.

For my system that I am going to teach (Note, determined) I've set up a curriculum as following;

  • Crazy Monkey Boxing (Close Quarter Defense and Dirty Clinch)
  • Judo for upper body, Wrestling for lower body throws
  • Muay Thai Knee and Elbow techniques
  • Kyokushin kicks but influence of JKD
  • Mainly Boxing and some Karate (WTF? ) for punching
  • Use of Bruce Lee's Phasic Bent Knee stance and long range defense
  • 'Ground and Pound' emphasis for the ground (getting superior position and slug it out using percussive instruments, but using submission holds from judo/jujutsu isn't out of the option
  • RBSD scenario training~ What's the point in being able to fight but not able to talk your way out of things?

I will discuss each point later on in detail why.

These points creates a well-rounded fighter, with an emphasis on striking (Like I told you, I'm a striker) but give me a limb and you'll say hello to the concrete faster than you can count to 2.

My training sessions will start off as following;

  • Warm up consisting of stretching and light cardio
  • Striking work
  • Grappling work
  • Theory work (Discussing techniques and learning new)
  • Putting theory to practice
  • Sparring
  • Conditioning
  • Cool down

If you've got any pointers feel free to comment.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374706 - 08/27/08 05:49 AM Re: Taison's Journey; A new path? [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Ok, I've been working a bit on my own training (and gotten nowhere with the training group).

Anyways, here's some goodies I've been dissecting these couple of days;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAiWxdC-uY8&feature=PlayList&p=6B527DAEF639F00A&index=42
Filipino Boxing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2myXZqzatbE&feature=PlayList&p=6B527DAEF639F00A&index=67
Empty hand Panantukan

More coming up, just need to reboot my computer.
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

Top
#374707 - 08/27/08 08:38 AM Re: Taison's Journey; A new path? [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:


Crazy Monkey Boxing (Close Quarter Defense and Dirty Clinch)
Judo for upper body, Wrestling for lower body throws
Muay Thai Knee and Elbow techniques
Kyokushin kicks but influence of JKD
Mainly Boxing and some Karate (WTF? ) for punching
Use of Bruce Lee's Phasic Bent Knee stance and long range defense
'Ground and Pound' emphasis for the ground (getting superior position and slug it out using percussive instruments, but using submission holds from judo/jujutsu isn't out of the option
RBSD scenario training~ What's the point in being able to fight but not able to talk your way out of things?





  • Crazy Monkey Boxing
  • Judo for Grappling
  • KFM for elbows & headbutts
  • Kyokushin kicks
  • Efficient Trapping


My new updated list~ See? Simplification in progress.

Anyways for today's brainstorm;

Crazy Monkey In-fighting Guard. I've been working on this and found it extremely useful. It has somehow revolutionized my in-fighting game by around 70% more efficient defense, and has vastly improved my offensive abilities now that I have tighter guard.

I also noted that from this guard, a wider range of elbow techniques are available as seen from this Keysi Fighting Method video. I'm starting to fall in love with KFM. I've only heard of it before as the MA used for Batman Begins, but now that I've seen this demonstrations, light bulbs just flickered in my head.

I'm an avid lover of elbow techniques but doing them hasn't been my strength. I think I can now push yet another of my limits.

Here's another thing I'm going to use without hesitation;
Crazy Monkey Boxing clinch

Also note, I'm trying to cut out kicking as much as possible because frankly, I'm trying to speed up process and I'm trying to make things as simple as possible for beginners. Basically, people should be able to train for a couple of days (accumulated training time), and should be decently proficient and confident in their abilities. However, I'm trying to incorporate some of the simpler low kicks such as sidekick, MT roundhouse kick, lead thrust kick, etc etc, as stop-hits against advancing opponents, then I can go into in-fighting phase.

I'm trying to develop a method of trapping where I can deliver maximum damage without having to use too much technique, and being relatively fail-safe.

I still haven't abandoned the principle of 'once caught, you'll be thrown'. I'm trying to find ways to incorporate that with the basic methods of the KFM.

I'm going to check into Paul Vunak's demos and see what he has to offer regarding trapping.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374708 - 09/15/08 01:22 PM Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Accronyms
CM - Crazy Monkey Boxing
KFM - Keysi Fighting Method
DB - Dirty Boxing
RAT - Rapid Assault Tactics

Paul Vunak's stuff? I just threw it out of the window. Not that it was useless, just I couldn't find anything which wasn't already in KFM.

I did, however, find some interesting stuff about Jens Pulver.

Dirty Boxing vol. 1 part. 1 Sure I completely ignored to most of his dialogues, but I liked the way he utilized kuzushi in his clinch as openers for striking, and how he said something along the line of;

"When he thinks you're going to wrestle, you create distance and strike him, and when he's about to retaliate you just go back into the clinch and cut off his attack".

Something to reflect on.

Also liked his takedown on 6:50.

I agree with what he says regarding boxing in the MMA scene. Too many guys whom have boxing training, try to act like they're inside the ring and just play things along the rules too much. They try to act all fancy, use footwork and try to create opening for counter-punching. This fails miserably when you're pit against a wrestler. The boxer will be too scared to get up close, the wrestler will be afraid to get up close as well. What happens? The boxer moves away and the wrestler will just shoot from afar. What an idiot, the both of them.

1,2 and then go into a clinch, I'd prefer the one used by Crazy Monkey Boxing, instead of going for the underhook, but underhook is fine.

Also, I noted Jens had the classical boxing guard when he got up close. I'd rather go with the Pensatao, which can be seen from the link. The Pensatao used in conjunction with CM's destructions will make any 'jab happy' bloke regret trying to out-box me.

The Pensatao has become my staple guard in-fighting, as taught by both KFM and Rodney King, I can't believe I've been boxing so long without it. It's just wonderful, pure magic.

Anyway back to DB;

Dirty Boxing vol.1 part.2

I liked the takedowns. I myself ain't much of jiujitsu guy, so going through all that newaza bullocks, just turns me off. I like judo because you set up throws so you don't need to go into all that.

My comment on this video though; on the second part, starting around 7:00, I'd rather go for an osoto-gari or osoto-otoshi in that situation. More bang for the buck. Just more damage if I did that throw than that reap takedown. But it's just me; not everyone's a judo-ka.

Ok, let's move on;

Dirty Boxing vol.1 part.3

Very nice way to get people who leans on you off you, terrific I must say. Never thought of using bumping before. I got to try that now.

I also like he does the snap back for the neck clinch. Awesome, although I'd go into the CM clinch instead. Just a personal preference.

Floyd Mayweather JR Dirty Boxing

I just love this video. Some really nice techniques, but I'd combine more of them with the CM Elevation Drive to create openings for more boxing. Staying in that position for too long would just open yourself up for being clinched, when you should be either clinching or trying to push him away.

It's neat especially the controllong the elbow, hit the rib and go for face shot. The elbow and punch combo is neat too.

The problem however in this video, was as mentioned by Jens in his DB, is that when someone leans on you like that, you can bump them with your shoulder to get them away. So when doing this, unless you're clinched, you will lose contact with them immediately so I'm taking Floyd's advice with a grain of salt. He's after all a boxer, not a MMA'ist. But like I said, if I was the attacker, I'd go for the elevation drive to create space or clinch, if I was the defender, I'd just bump him off me and follow with some really nasty shovel hooks and go for clinch.

Randy Couture explains the single hand collar tie
CM Clinch

The same, just Couture made it a bit more advanced, and I'm liking it. I see lots of opportunities to throw my punch or knees and keep him off balance. Nice, nice.

Here's some food for thought;
You're able to take out your opponent's striking ability if he's a grappler by slapping really hard at the inside of his bicep when he tries to reach for you. When he starts to understand that trying to wrestle you isn't such a good idea, it'll already be too late to use striking. A slap aimed at the bicep, now you've got space to move in for the neck clinch, pull him off balance into the single collartie, unleash a few strikes, and takedown. A sound plan imo.

More following up...

~Taison out


Edited by Taison (09/15/08 01:47 PM)
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374709 - 09/15/08 01:34 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
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Loc: York PA. USA
Great analysis, Taison. Thanks for the links, I'll be checking into those myself.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#374710 - 09/15/08 01:45 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I've got to do kicking some justice as well;

Chasse Bas

Probably one of the few kicking techniques I would ever use nowadays. The rest I don't know why I should continue. Sure my roundhouse is scary but, the chasse bas I don't need shins of steel to make it effective. Plus this is a great stop-hit.

Original Chasse Bas

Chasse Lateral and Chasse Frontal The first combo is neat, a stop hit to the midsection, and then one on the knee. I'd rather do a Chasse Bas on the knee though

I can already imagine an attack plan.

Assume Pensatao. The guy tries to jab me, I just defend myself by moving to the sides while blocking with my elbows to create damage on his hands. When he tries to reach out with his arm to clinch me, I could slap the inside of his arms to create space, go for the single neck-tie, unleash a few strike and chasse bas his leg and follow with a sweep.

Sweet. It's still theory, but I'll make it work one way or another.

This project of mine is getting more interesting by the day!

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374711 - 09/15/08 01:53 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Matt;

I'm just trying to create what Bruce Lee did; Something tailored for me.

I'm just sharing before I forget everything lol.

This is just something I'm going to use later when I start my training group. Already got the location.

I might be going there soon to take some pictures and post it here so everyone can see.

Matt, feel free to add some comments. I'm bored talking to meself here. I'm not a schizophreniac, ok?

What Donnie? Don't talk to Matt? Why? Because he's not safe Taison... What, really Donnie? Yes Taison...

~Donnie
-Taison out
No... Donnie
YES.. Taison out
DONNIE!!!
TAISON!!!! STFU BEFORE I BAN YOU!
~Silence~
Good...

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374712 - 09/15/08 02:04 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
My art has slowly drifted away from all asian influences;

- Keysi from England
- Crazy Monkey from South Africa, I think.. bah Brittish!
- Savate from France
- Dirty Boxing from USA
- Roman-Greco wrestling from France

I'm leaning towards being a striker foremost, but grappling will have it's uses later on.

Trying to see where I can fit in some grappling in there, although I'm not a fan of ground-work. Jiujitsu isn't my thing.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374713 - 09/16/08 04:24 AM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
A letter from Rodney King re CM Boxing's guard

A good read methinks. Invoked some ideas into my thick skull.

I wonder what I can do to get some info from these guys... wait.. I got JKogas!

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374714 - 09/16/08 09:37 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Somebody callin' my name?

The CM structure is great. From what I've found, its also natural and quite easy to pick up. It works as an easy bridge into the clinch. Too many positives to mention.

Did you have specific questions?

-John

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#374715 - 09/16/08 11:50 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Wee!!!

He's here!

Yes yes, got lots of them questions~

First things first then.

The guard, well seeing as how it's higher than a normal boxing guard and it's great for jab defenses. However I find it's a lot harder to do slips, bobs and weave. All I've got left is to duck.

So, using the guard, is it possible to just ignore the whole traditional 'boxing defense'? I've found that after a few jab hits on my elbow, they're not so jab happy anymore. Or do you guys at your gym still practice bob, slip and weave?

I'm having problem doing some of my favorite hits like shovel hooks or uppercuts. It seems I have to drop one of my hands out of the guard, which totally exposes my face. How do I work around this?

What are the kick defenses in CM? For me, it seems when I'm in the guard, I just seem to miss those kicks by milli-seconds. I'm having a rough time trying to catch weist-height kicks since I have to drop my arms. Is it just better to move in and deliver a 1,2,3 combo?

More more, just can't think of any right now.

Trust me, there'll be more!

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374716 - 09/17/08 01:06 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Having my waist squared against the opponent, how am I supposed to deliver a kick???

I need more info on effective clinching in CM.

Just treat me like a noob and give me full info please!

I'm trying to put a 60% emphasis on fists, and 20-30% emphasis on elbows. How do I incorporate the elbows into CM? What about headbutts?

Any suggestions on how to enter a clinch using CM's form?

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374717 - 09/17/08 08:35 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


The guard, well seeing as how it's higher than a normal boxing guard and it's great for jab defenses. However I find it's a lot harder to do slips, bobs and weave. All I've got left is to duck.

So, using the guard, is it possible to just ignore the whole traditional 'boxing defense'? I've found that after a few jab hits on my elbow, they're not so jab happy anymore. Or do you guys at your gym still practice bob, slip and weave?





Great question(s). First off, it should be noted that the cm structure is both a body and arm posture. This is taught to beginners as a way of getting them to speed quickly. The reason is because the more standard boxing guard often takes a lot longer to learn, as it can take a good while to develop the attributes needed to play that game. In the mean time, you're taking punishment (as it takes time to develop those attributes). This was one of the reasons why the cm structure was created.

To answer your question, yes slipping, bobbing and weaving are still done. They're just modified somewhat. But the thing is, just because you are embracing the cm approach doesn't mean that you have to eliminate a more traditional boxing method. In fact, once most cm guys have developed their skill, they integrate most of the traditional boxing approach into the mix and are doing BOTH. So it does not mean that you have to stop what you're doing.

In terms of the elbow destructions, these are just bonuses. Keep that in mind. Sure, it certainly hurts when you jam your knuckles onto the point of someones elbow. I've felt it through 16oz gloves, but they aren't really a part of the basic structure. Saying this to those who may not have a highly developed game, bringing your arms/elbows up TOO high is a calculated risk. Doing so exposes you by taking your lines of defense (totakedowns) away.



Quote:


I'm having problem doing some of my favorite hits like shovel hooks or uppercuts. It seems I have to drop one of my hands out of the guard, which totally exposes my face. How do I work around this?





For me this is easily rectified by creating an angle outside one of your opponent's arms (outside gate?). Rodney King has been one of the biggest proponents of the shovel hook so it's definitely part of the system. In fact, all punches (and defenses) are. Nothing has been excluded. It isn't that your arms always have to remain high by the way. Use your timing and pick your spots. Its possible that if one already has boxing experiences and adopts a CM structure, they may assume that you are taught to always maintain the cm posture. Not so. You're free to switch back and forth as you see fit. I typically switch guards a lot depending on the experience/skill of my opponent and how "busy" his offense is. It also depends on the distance that you're engaging him in. If I'm outside of reach, I keep my guard down a little more. As I move inside, it tightens up as does that of most boxers. The CM just has beginners staying tight no matter the range until they become more comfortable, I think that's fair to say.

But back to the shovel hook/uppercut. If you slip outside and create that angle, it won't matter that your face is exposed because your opponent will be unable to hit you. It's that and timing. I'll throw the liver shot by standing in front of my opponent and getting something in his face, putting him on the defensive. Then I'll throw the liver shot as one of the last punches in a combo.

The uppercut it thrown as per usual. It's not delivered in any other way than is typical. You just drop one arm as you keep the other high. You're not throwing these punches any different than you would in traditional boxing. That is pretty important to say here.


Quote:


What are the kick defenses in CM? For me, it seems when I'm in the guard, I just seem to miss those kicks by milli-seconds. I'm having a rough time trying to catch weist-height kicks since I have to drop my arms. Is it just better to move in and deliver a 1,2,3 combo?





Everyone will approach this differently. For me, I move in and keep pressure on a kicker by throwing the combos. Otherwise, you'd adopt the traditional kick defenses (particularly those ofmuay Thai). Notice that the Thai guard is also a higher guard. Thus, use distance and ring generalship accordingly. You know that if you're facing a kicker, either stay well outside or well inside, etc..


Quote:

Having my waist squared against the opponent, how am I supposed to deliver a kick???





Use angular footwork. Step off and throw your kicks at these angles and you should have no problem. Again, it doesn't mean that you ALWAYS have to stay square. If you have skill, use it. The CM structure is taught to folks without such skill. This assumes that they won't be kicking. Personally speaking, I never kick because I'm either looking to throw combos or clinch. Otherwise, drop your arms and align your hips as need be. Just accept the consequences also for having done so.


Quote:


I need more info on effective clinching in CM. Just treat me like a noob and give me full info please!





Sounds like you need a seminar, lol! I'd get Rodney's DVDs in all honesty. That would help a great deal. In terms of clinching, you're free to use whatever you like. If you like getting into the traditionalplumm clinch, by all means do so. For me, it's all about the under-hooks or the dirty boxing clinch. That's where my game is at currently. I don't see it changing any either. I assume you have some clinching experience in either regard. It's all about entering safely and playing your game once in.


Quote:


I'm trying to put a 60% emphasis on fists, and 20-30% emphasis on elbows. How do I incorporate the elbows into CM? What about headbutts?





Elbows are thrown as usual. If you have Thai boxing experience, you already know everything you need to know. Nothing changes. I have to restate that not much changes just because you're using a higher, tighter guard. This isn't all that unusual as is taught in a lot ofamateur boxing. Keep your hands UP is often heard in those gyms. This is no different in the CM structure. Watch Rampage Jackson sometime. His high cover is virtually identical to the CM structure! Watch his fights and see how he plays the game. That's ultimately going to teach you more than I can by typing words. You really need to SEE this material performed to gain a deeper understanding.


Quote:

Any suggestions on how to enter a clinch using CM's form?





Sure, there are lots of ways to enter. One way is to keep the structure and simply jam right in, timing the entry as your opponent is flurrying. The trick here is the close distance to eliminate straight line punching. As your opponent throws the hook lines, his center opens. Move straight in and clinch.

Personally, I like using the outside deflection to gain the neck tie. Hard to describe if you don't already know what I'm talking about. It's taught in Thai boxing to gain theplumm . Essentially you "reach" for the neck from outside by turning almost sideways (you're reaching with ONE arm, obviously). Reach, clinch, then come in with your opposite arm. I tend to look for the underhook with my opposite arm.

Check out Youtube. Here's one from Jens Pulver that works easily from within the CM structure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxh4a2r0sBw

Also, do a general seach for Crazy Monkey boxing within youtube and see what comes back. From what I recall, there was a lot of stuff. You may find what you're looking for there.

Again I think it's important that everyone realize that CM boxing isn't all that different from traditional boxing (aside from squaring up). However, we have to remember that what we're dong is applying boxing within the no rules or limited rules format. This forces us to have to change. You can't blade up as you would in boxing with the narrower stance as that will just give away a single leg, etc. You couldn't sprawl effectively from that position.

Anyway, I'm quite sure that I may not have answered your questions fully. Feel free to fire away with more. Thats what this place is for (aside from the ads, which are the primary reason this site exists).


-John

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#374718 - 09/17/08 11:21 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Thanks John,

I was thinking of getting one of Rodney King's DVD, I think it was called USA Clinch or something.

Well basically, all I got to work from now is Jen Pulver's dirty boxing.

I'm having a great time with the CM clinch. Going into the plum, they think I'm going to throw knees, so they naturally hunch a bit, that's when I use one hand to push them down and start to deliver strikes with my other hand. Sometimes I switch hand and move to the other side to dumbfound them. Magic!

Also another trick I've got from Jens Pulver, was to alway bump with either my shoulder or my elbow if my opponent leans on it. The shoulder just irritates them when they're trying to lean on me, but when I do it with the inside of my elbow (or forearm), sometimes I can create openings for a shot with my other hand. Magic!

My main problem is with the necktie underhook clinch. I'm totally worthless at this. When I did judo I spent most of the time in the necktie overhook (i.e. grabbing the elbow). I'm so not used to grabbing the lats and pulling them towards me. I'm not really sure what type of takedowns I'm able to do from here.

Concerning the guard, It felt a bit awkward at first but it's becoming more of a natural right now. Having a great time intercepting sprawls now, it feels like all I need to do now is put my hands down and just push my legs out. Before when I used the MT guard, I had to bend down, put my hands on his shoulders, move my legs back et al. Took my a long time to get the sprawl in, was mainly successful if I anticipated the takedown. Now it's more like "Here he comes", sprawl. Done.

Rampage Jackson? He's really good at those blocks without needing to slip, bob and weave. He's also a CM practitioner? Cool.


Now here's more of a 'teaching' question. If I was to teach this material, would it be better to use standard boxing gloves or the MMA gloves? I'm was thinking of making it more of a self-defense/MMA emphasized training, but seeing as basics needs to be done right, maybe I would need bigger gloves. What you think?

How did you get the training in CM? I knew one trained teacher, Adam Kayoom, when he was here in Thailand teaching BJJ at Bangkok Fight Club, but I never knew he was a certified CM teacher. Fack, I missed him. Had I known he was this good, I'd call him up. Seems he's in Malaysia now, allah damn it.

Anyways, was thinking of getting 1 or 2 dvd's and work on that.

Any other material you recommend?

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374719 - 09/27/08 04:53 PM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Thanks John,

I was thinking of getting one of Rodney King's DVD, I think it was called USA Clinch or something.)





If I were you, I would purchase two from him. One would be “Sparring 101” and the second is called (I believe) the “Fight Compass”. IMO, that’s all you need.



Quote:

Well basically, all I got to work from now is Jen Pulver's dirty boxing.




That’s a good place to start though.


Quote:

My main problem is with the necktie underhook clinch. I'm totally worthless at this. When I did judo I spent most of the time in the necktie overhook (i.e. grabbing the elbow). I'm so not used to grabbing the lats and pulling them towards me. I'm not really sure what type of takedowns I'm able to do from here.





The underhook requires time, but once you have it down and can wrestle into it, you talk about MAGIC? The underhook is [censored] magic. Like I said though, it takes time. You have to be able to obtain the underhook, then control the position, then work your attacks. Personally, I don’t look to strike much from the underhook with my hands, so its usually just knees. I typically work for takedowns as soon as I get the underhook. If you don’t, the position will eventually break down and you’ll have to start all over again.

Some of the better takedowns to learn first from the underhook might be; the near ankle pick, the far ankle/knee pick, duck-under, single leg, double leg and the high crotch. You can also work footsweeps from there. Those require timing but are worth practicing.



Quote:

Concerning the guard, It felt a bit awkward at first but it's becoming more of a natural right now. Having a great time intercepting sprawls now, it feels like all I need to do now is put my hands down and just push my legs out.





As with anything, it takes time to pick up the subtle nuances and things. Once you get that timing down and a feel for what you’re trying to accomplish, the CM structure is a great tool.



Quote:

Rampage Jackson? He's really good at those blocks without needing to slip, bob and weave. He's also a CM practitioner? Cool.





I don’t know if Rampage calls what he does the “crazy monkey” or not. But the technique I’ve seen him do is virtually identical to what we’re doing.


Quote:

Now here's more of a 'teaching' question. If I was to teach this material, would it be better to use standard boxing gloves or the MMA gloves? I'm was thinking of making it more of a self-defense/MMA emphasized training, but seeing as basics needs to be done right, maybe I would need bigger gloves. What you think?




I think you need to do this with big gloves, small gloves and no gloves. All three are important. When I say, “no gloves”, make sure that your partner is wearing at least small gloves if you are bare handed. You’re drilling this way to develop defense and sensitivity. I wouldn’t recommend sparring bare handed, but to each his own. Just drill using all three scenarios.


Quote:

How did you get the training in CM?




I trained with Adam Singer back in 2002 at his gym. He showed me what the core CM structure was. I also had dvd’s to supplement that and went back home and started training it with my partners and students. Later I trained with Rodney himself in Athens Ga, in October of 2003. Recently I trained with one of his master coaches, Jerry Wetzel in Bristol Tennessee. Jerry covered the entire basic CM structure there. Rodney graciously allowed me into the trainers group.


Quote:


I knew one trained teacher, Adam Kayoom, when he was here in Thailand teaching BJJ at Bangkok Fight Club, but I never knew he was a certified CM teacher.




Adam is apparently still teaching. A great talent from what I understand.


Quote:

Anyways, was thinking of getting 1 or 2 dvd's and work on that.

Any other material you recommend?




Get “Sparring 101” and the “Fight Compass”. That should be more than enough to keep you busy for a while. Otherwise, learn everything you can about the clinch. Devote much practice time to the underhook, but don’t neglect the overhook either. If you can get your hands on any Erik Paulson material, do so. You’ll be glad you did.


-John

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#374720 - 09/28/08 10:16 AM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: JKogas]
matxtx Offline
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Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
I hope no one minds me sticking my oar in.
Theres no link but it seems a similar approach to the 'Morris method'.Might be worth checking out.I dont know much on CM but concerning a square stance and the gaurd and how kicking can be incorporated into it 'Morris Method' explains it well.
The sessions Iv been in we keep shoulders high to make it hard for them to reach out and neck clinch,not a full turtle neck but nearly there so its easier to do one and the higher gaurd makes it easier to just reach out and take them or tie up,amongst other things.Or even get head controll and get on them to stop them coming in.
Also it helps covering as all you have to do is angle off correctly and the shoulder helps with protection.Though The shoulders are not up so high its realy uncomfy or your like a stiff thing,lol, and immobile.

There are even free clips too on some aspects!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZWxOGSTkpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmOrBa2ie58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKGhhonr_fY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRNwk16u8gE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMDVlFmSE8

Its hard to come by training like this in England.
Do you know any CM people in central England John?
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#374721 - 09/28/08 10:36 AM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: matxtx]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Its hard to come by training like this in England.
Do you know any CM people in central England John?




There ARE some folks there mate. Let me look around and I'll come back with some links.


-John

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#374722 - 09/28/08 11:37 AM Re: Taison's Journey [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This 'Morris Method' seems nice..

Let me have a look at it, and I'll come back to it.

~Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#374723 - 12/19/08 01:35 PM Re: Back to basic: Taison's journey [Re: Taison]
me_tonyg Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Bellingham, Wa. USA
Watch the running at your 'ripe old age' lol. I'm getting up there myself sir, and find that 2 or 3 hard 'fights' on the bag (full power, full timed rounds, as many rounds as you could do in a fight) can take the place of at least half of my road work, and teach me to economize my movements (like the high reps in M.T.) giving the same effect as alot of road work by using less energy. Just a thought. Sawadee Krup.
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'Rest-Less' Tony Garcia Team Rock Solid Bellingham, Wa

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