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#373918 - 12/12/07 02:42 PM well-rounded training
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Karate is a punching-kicking MA, right?

Not exactly, there are a number of sweeps, throws, joint-locks & strangulations imbedded in the art.

So how many of you karate-ka practice falls & rolls? I contend that w/o proper training in falls & rolls, you 1) may get injured (duh) & 2) won't throw properly (out of concern for your partner).

Thanks.

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#373919 - 12/12/07 03:39 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: hedkikr]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
We don't exactly practice falls and rolls in class.
I learned a little attending jiujitsu at university. And very little I train fall ukemi on my own.

A pitty and not the way it should be...
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Ives

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#373920 - 12/12/07 04:32 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think break falls should be a part of a well rounded training session.

But you can take it to an exterm after training in Aikido for a while the Judokas were upset because they couldn't get their throws off I'd roll or fly with it. They wanted resistance and didn't appreciate my help, after making the mental swicht I went back to my Judo and wrestling training and we got along better.

In saying that I have to agree that break falls make for well rounded training and less concern of injuring. But I must admit college wrestling doesn't teach breakfalls formally but its full resisitance.

B-Fs has not always been a part of Trad Karate cirricullum as it came to the states from Okinawan, Korea or Japan. Strange in that Chinese arts (the fore-father of Ryukyu Te arts) have excellent break fall training.
_________________________
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#373921 - 12/12/07 04:43 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: hedkikr]
MattJ Offline
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Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
We did front and back rolls in AKK, but not much in the way of breakfalls. A fair amount of stand-up grappling, but not much with resistance.
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#373922 - 12/12/07 09:08 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: MattJ]
Blackrainbow Offline
Dragon

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 220
Loc: Brandon Fl.USA
I always have. I started out in Judo when I was about 10 yrs old so I guess I have just integrated it naturally into my karate.
_________________________
You cannot defend against that which you do not understand

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#373923 - 12/13/07 08:58 AM Re: well-rounded training [Re: hedkikr]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Falls and rolls are one of the first things I teach. The student may need this knowledge soon.
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#373924 - 12/14/07 08:37 AM Re: well-rounded training [Re: Ironfoot]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I wonder how many Karateka train kuzushi... I believe kuzushi can come in very handy, even if you are primarily a striker.
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#373925 - 12/14/07 08:42 AM Re: well-rounded training [Re: Leo_E_49]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=54

a nice introduction to the principle.

on a simple level I find kuzushi is contained in the 'middle movement' of the classical kata.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#373926 - 12/16/07 04:33 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: shoshinkan]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
By 'middle movement' do you mean the movement of koshi (hip/waist)?
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#373927 - 12/16/07 05:51 PM Re: well-rounded training [Re: Ives]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
We practice break falls and various rolls every week. I always say you can fall down even if you aren't attacked.

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#373928 - 12/17/07 05:32 AM Re: well-rounded training [Re: Ives]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
yes indeed that is one major aspect,

but also all the other things that happen in between the often 'fixed' points shown in kata for reference to learn the movements of them, feet and arms are most commonly involved in set up as well.

eg in books the majority of time you will see end points only.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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