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#372356 - 12/13/07 10:19 AM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: ITFunity]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Quote:

Quote:

I'm curious. I always learned to kihap at the end of a pattern but later I saw some ITF guys who always called out the name of the pattern at the end.




The ITF requires one to finish the last kove, then state the name of the Tul. Each one of the movements (970, with KoDang 1009) in the patterns, are to be performed with realism & maximum power. The idea of saving a KiHap to the end for the killer blow goes against a goal of ITF TKD. We are also required to exhale briefly, from the lower abdomen, with each movement, with the exception of a connecting motion. The exhale does not need or requre a hiss or loud noise, but rather, to come from deep, not the mouth.




Our school has always used the kihap in the patterns, but again we are not an "Official" ITF school, being members of the AAU we are actually closer to being WTF except for the patterns. With that being said, at the seminar I recently attended with Master Rai of ITF-C, As directed by GM Choi, they have begun to re-introduce kihaps to the patterns. He told us that the General was actually very much in favor of the kihap until practioners started doing their Bruce Lee imitations rather than a real kihap from the belly.

VDJ

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#372357 - 12/13/07 04:03 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: trevek]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but having 3200 fundamental movements is not keeping things simple. Thats a bit excessive.<<<

Depends on your point of view. There was a good article in the Dec. Black Belt Mag I think. The point of the article is that training in a martial art is about more than doing only what is simple or neccessary.

Doing only what is simple or neccesary may be a very effective self defense strategy. However, this will quickly get mundane and you will lose interest. Now, trying to excel thru exceedingly difficult training and trying to accomplish or perform beyond the ordinary is what makes for a fascinating activity.

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#372358 - 12/13/07 04:05 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: trevek]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>>The idea of saving a KiHap to the end for the killer blow goes against a goal of ITF TKD. <<<

UNITY-- Please elaborate.

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#372359 - 12/13/07 04:12 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: trevek]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>>I'm going to assume that the all seeing general "founder" of Taekwon-Do also took the liberty to have his students interpret the patterns functionality as well right? ^^<<<

For those who do not take note that the comment is tongue in cheek, to have the work as suggested would take a huge amount of time and material as well as being duplicitous. The 4 CD set already contains the 15 volume encyclopedia with examples of applications for the moves.

>>>To record the patterns without the applications would be a disservice. Leaving each pattern open to interpretation and scrutiny which would only add to the chaos in which the ITF is trying to eradicate by standardizing its global curriculum.<<<

The applications are ":recorded" albeit in a photo rather than a video format.

>>>Furthermore if this set is "The set to have for any serious TKD practitioner" it would go without saying that it would be a complete package of the Generals and his top instructors work regarding both forms and content rather than just aesthetic purposes. <<<

Since the set also contains the text it is much more than esthetics. The videos are not intended to be a complete work. No one claims they are. In fact, far from it since the video only addresses pattern which is but one part of the system.

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#372360 - 12/13/07 04:15 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: EarlWeiss]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
>>>I recently attended with Master Rai of ITF-C, As directed by GM Choi, they have begun to re-introduce kihaps to the patterns.<<<

It seems the Son's group, or the son himself is putting his own stamp on the system.

Ity seesm they have also changed 2 moves in Ju Che http://www.tkd.co.uk/Patterns/Juche.htm

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#372361 - 12/15/07 02:34 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: EarlWeiss]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

>>>The idea of saving a KiHap to the end for the killer blow goes against a goal of ITF TKD. <<<

UNITY-- Please elaborate.




This comes from Mr. Anslow. I think there is a section in his book that deals with this. KiHaps are somewhat in the relam of the meta physical & as such, it is guessed that since it did not have a sound scientific basis, it was eliminated. Now others can correct me if I am wrong, but in some types of Karate, isn't the KiHap added for additional strength or power? In the ITF, we don't wait till the end of a Tul do deliver more power, as maximum power is to be utilized for all the movements. JMHO

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#372362 - 12/16/07 07:45 AM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: ITFunity]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
I agree and disagree . We have some "Soft" moves in the Chang Hon system such as Hooking Block, Pressing block etc. where the Kihap for power theory would not be applicable. Perhaps this would make an interesting thread, but IMO the Kihap or yell serves three possible purposes. 1. To generate a startle reflex in the opponent 2. To help tense your Diaphram in order to prepare it against a counter attack, 3. To facilitate in contracting the diaphram in concert with the contraction of other muscles to create the power thru a coordination of the musculature used to generate power. Only #3 is the same used for most other techniques accomplished thru the coordinated exhalation with the exertion.

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#372363 - 12/16/07 10:40 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: EarlWeiss]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
I broke down and purchased the encyclopedia and dvd's last year. From my own opinion, I felt the encyclopedia was well worth the purchase as a reference, It's much easier to transport than 15 volumes of encyclopedia, but the dvd's were not. There are just as many good examples of each of the patterns available on youtube, that it's just not worth spending the money on.

As far as the kihap, my school just uses the kihap at the end, but I know schools that say the pattern name at the beginning and at the end of the pattern. Frankly, it's more likely just for ensuring that the student knows the name of the pattern.

Laura

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#372364 - 12/17/07 01:50 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: EarlWeiss]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I agree and disagree . We have some "Soft" moves in the Chang Hon system such as Hooking Block, Pressing block etc. where the Kihap for power theory would not be applicable. Perhaps this would make an interesting thread, but IMO the Kihap or yell serves three possible purposes. 1. To generate a startle reflex in the opponent 2. To help tense your Diaphram in order to prepare it against a counter attack, 3. To facilitate in contracting the diaphram in concert with the contraction of other muscles to create the power thru a coordination of the musculature used to generate power. Only #3 is the same used for most other techniques accomplished thru the coordinated exhalation with the exertion.




Yes Sir, I do agree. I was leaving out the exceptions like the palm hooking blocks & slow motion etc, as I did not want the discussion to get to esoteric by us ITF types!

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#372365 - 12/17/07 01:53 PM Re: TKD-Skippi's amalgamated patterns [Re: tkd_high_green]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Quote:

I broke down and purchased the encyclopedia and dvd's last year. From my own opinion, I felt the encyclopedia was well worth the purchase as a reference, It's much easier to transport than 15 volumes of encyclopedia, but the dvd's were not. There are just as many good examples of each of the patterns available on youtube, that it's just not worth spending the money on.
Laura




Side issue here:
I am gathering you purchased the "CONDENSED" version of the 15 volumes? If so, then yes it is easier to carry, but is not IMHO a substitiute for the full 15 volumes.
In addition, the CD Rom version is from the 1st edition of the 15 volumes, dated 1983, which is as you can see, somewhat outdated. JMHO

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