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#371496 - 12/19/07 12:31 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: UKfightfreak]
BodhiHuss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Greenville, SC, USA
Quote:

Quote:

I think its more like a checkpoint thing. Achieving a split, gives you more hope to become an even better martial artist. Its definately a goal to most martial artists out there.




Why?

It doesn't have any functional use for kicking, so why bother?

Little girls who have never been in a Martial arts class can do the splits - do you think this gives them more hope of being a better Martial Artist?

Funny there is such a prize on it, when its so easy to achieve when you train correctly.




This is an excellent post. Why is it being ignored? Splits are silly. There are no plans for Gymkata II, so stop practicing for it.

Quote:

There is some martial benefit to increased flexibility and also the COOL factor.




A ridiculous statement if I've ever heard one. How the hell does the "cool factor" make you a better martial artist?
_________________________
James Huss, Suenaka Zenzan Dojo www.suenakazenzandojo.com

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#371497 - 12/19/07 01:34 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: BodhiHuss]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Guys, while I am not hell-bent on the idea of being able to do the splits, it can have an effect on your martial arts. Being flexible will help to prevent injury in training (allowing you to do more) and also in fighting. In grappling especially, having good leg and back flex can allow you to escape positions and/or avoid submissions.

Not a worthless endeavour at all.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#371498 - 12/19/07 02:10 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: MattJ]
BodhiHuss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Greenville, SC, USA
Quote:

Guys, while I am not hell-bent on the idea of being able to do the splits, it can have an effect on your martial arts. Being flexible will help to prevent injury in training (allowing you to do more) and also in fighting. In grappling especially, having good leg and back flex can allow you to escape positions and/or avoid submissions.

Not a worthless endeavour at all.




Is this really so practical and useful that you would dedicate time training it? True, it may be somewhat useful in certain situations, but so are many other physical movements and abilities. That doesn't mean that I want to take time out of my punching/kicking/blocking/grappling practice to try to perfect something that will most likely not be used in a real situation. It's just not smart or efficient training.

I think overall flexibility is important, but to set a goal like doing a split or kicking over your head is a bit extreme and quite unnecessary. I only know one good martial artist who can do a full split. Of course, he is a freak of nature with a lot of natural flexibility.

Of course, if you are about to get electrocuted and you can jump up on a kitchen counter in a full split to avoid it, then it may be useful. (Sorry for the sarcasm. I was changing channels the other day and accidentally watched a few minutes of Time Cop .)
_________________________
James Huss, Suenaka Zenzan Dojo www.suenakazenzandojo.com

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#371499 - 12/19/07 02:16 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: BodhiHuss]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Is this really so practical and useful that you would dedicate time training it?




Absolutely. I do Pilates, and also lift weights for strength training. Having good physical attributes isn't going to be a substitute for skill, but it doesn't hurt, either.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#371500 - 12/19/07 03:18 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: MattJ]
BodhiHuss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Greenville, SC, USA
Again, I'm not talking about overall flexibity and physical strength. I myself lift weights several times a week and stretch everyday--I'm pretty flexible, but I still cannot do a full split. What I think is a waste of time is the amount of flexibility training you would have to do to accomplish a full split. If I have been stretching regularly for the past 20 years and I still cannot do it, it must take quite a bit of conditioning or natural ability to get to that point. How much stretching practice would it take for an average person to be able to do a split? Is it worth spending all that time on a skill with so few applications?

Quote:

Having good physical attributes isn't going to be a substitute for skill, but it doesn't hurt, either.




It hurts you if you are substituting stretching for martial training. Unless you are a monk or independently wealthy, we all have to manage our time in the real world. Spending valuable training time simply to be able to do a split would be foolish, in my opinion. If you are doing it to look cool, please don't pretend that it is a valuable skill applicable to the martial arts. It is not.

Overall flexibility is important, but doing a full split is a little too extreme to be practical. I say stretch everyday, but don't place importance on the split. Focus on a good, well rounded stretching routine that benefits the entire body. Isn't that what Pilates does?
_________________________
James Huss, Suenaka Zenzan Dojo www.suenakazenzandojo.com

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#371501 - 12/19/07 03:38 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: BodhiHuss]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

It hurts you if you are substituting stretching for martial training.




I guess this is where we differ. You could make the same case for strength training. IMHO, there needs to be training time for skill and attributes. One without the other will be limiting to the student.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#371502 - 12/19/07 07:11 PM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: MattJ]
WhiteDragon11 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/07
Posts: 1165
Loc: Florida, United States
I got to agree with Matt here. A lot of times when you focus on skill, you have to focus on the attributes required to become skilled. Sorry for bringing up actors, but look at Tony Jaa, Chan, and Jet Li. They are the martial artists that everyone looks up to. I doubt they could just do a split with no training. They focused on it, until they got it.
You could say skill is a collection of attributes.

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#371503 - 12/20/07 04:02 AM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: WhiteDragon11]
General_Neo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 70
I know i dont say much but i have to agree with Matt and White Dragon on this one.
Skill can get you a long way, but skill and attributes can get you further!

Take care everyone,
Neo
_________________________
Im not in this world to live up to your expectations and youre not in this world to live up to mine

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#371504 - 12/20/07 06:39 AM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: General_Neo]
ThomsonsPier Offline
Member

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 475
Loc: Reading, UK
I'm not focusing on achieving the side split as such, but I am stretching the muscles required to reach that goal. If I happen to reach a split when stretching, so be it. I understand that it won't automatically make me a better martial artist, but I do it anyway because I like being flexible.

I have found that the stretch improves more than just kicking height, however. The more flexible I am, the more effective I find strength training for those muscles, allowing a wider range of motion under load. A little extra focus on stretching the thighs has improved my rooting (and therefore overall power) immensely.

I suppose that's just restating that proficiency in the martial arts requires a unity of skills, rather than complete focus on one subset.
_________________________
ThomsonsPier

War. It's fan-tastic!

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#371505 - 12/21/07 10:42 AM Re: How Close to the Side Splits are You? [Re: BodhiHuss]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
A ridiculous statement if I've ever heard one. How the hell does the "cool factor" make you a better martial artist?




The COOL Factor doesn't make you a better martial artist, it just makes you cool. I think you misread my earlier statement. Flexibility does make you a better martial artist because it gives you more options (of movement.

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