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#370753 - 01/17/08 10:19 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

isn't it just that simple, and all the rest of the language and visualizations used for such an exercise just creating layers around that simplicity?


Even though I know nothing, compared to BP, I second what BP said... if ONLY it were THAT simple....

Quote:

you assume that anyone who didn't/doesn't drink from your same cup, hasn't had anything good to drink.

whereas, what may really be going on is that it's you who have limited your range by thinking there is only one way: the way you learned.


Perhaps, it's not the cup, but what you THINK you're both drinking - it's not the same thing. As far as there being only one way - true, there are many ways and many variations of the same basic principles, including the language used to describe it. So far, the language you're using doesn't even remotely conform to even my limited understanding of what is going on, what is being trained and how to train it. So I'm not entirely sure that you understand what you think you know about it.

For starters, when in stationary stance, what are you specifically training? What things are you doing in that regard? What are you doing with your breath, and breath pressure? Where are you directing gravity and ground force to? What are the 6 cardinal directions and why are they important? What is being trained here? What is opening and closing? What is the function of the "kua"/pelvic girdle? How does stationary training develop power generation? From where is power generated?

So, is it as simple as letting your body self-adjust following muscle fatigue and failure? Just some things for you to think about... and these are just the basic questions for you to start with...


Edited by eyrie (01/17/08 10:23 PM)

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#370754 - 01/18/08 01:52 AM Re: Stationary training [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I don't suppose you'd know the difference of isometrics to IMA stationary training.

good basic IMA questions though, maybe someone will address them for you....because I'm sure you won't answer your own questions.


anyway - what are the technical goals for stationary training? Doesn't it ultimitely come down to assist-training towards absorbing instant efficient structure at any given time?


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#370755 - 01/18/08 06:07 AM Re: Stationary training [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Even though I know nothing, compared to BP,




Please, Eyrie, I blush easily
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#370756 - 01/18/08 05:26 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: Ed_Morris]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
In my (fairly limited) exposure to this kind of training, I think the visualizations and image repititions make a huge difference, I can't explain why but they do.

You could just stand in a neutral posture, but it doesn't become conditioning that will change your body until you add in the visualizations and the image-concept things.

I haven't been doing this type of thing that long, but the image stuff has made a huge difference in my Karate.

Also from what i've seen while the external training methods are different, it seems like for the most part the visualization techniques and concepts seem to be common from art to art.

EDIT: Just remembered there is a conversation going on on e-budo on this subject:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38747




Edited by Zach_Zinn (01/18/08 05:30 PM)

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#370757 - 01/18/08 08:18 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: Zach_Zinn]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I look at visualizations and imagery as a mind/intent training device. There is nothing old or new about this type of training - high performance athletes and sports people, self-help and motivational coaches use it all the time - BUT, not in the same way as how or what it is used in IMA training.

Different visualizations work for different people, but the purpose is the same. The questions one should be asking are what is the purpose? What is the mind/intent actively (consciously/sub-consciously) doing?

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#370758 - 01/18/08 11:28 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: eyrie]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
What does it actually do I don't know, honestly in MA terms it all seems so...anachronistic anyway. I suppose you could simply subsribe to the notion that you are directing internal forces to do external things, but honestly that answer seems to fall short of the mark for me.

For my own part I don't doubt there is some explanation in physics of what people with "bodyskills" can do, training it seems to require one to use this imagery and such to acheive the results regardless.

Check out the e-budo thread, one of the themes there is that these skills are not neccessarily art-specific, but rather can and are found in a variety of martial arts.

Personally i'm just happy that i've been shown a bit of this stuff and that it's really giving me a different perspective on what I do.

Why do you think it works?

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#370759 - 01/18/08 11:58 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: Zach_Zinn]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Why do you think it works?




Why do you have a penile erection when you THINK or VISUALISE something sexy?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#370760 - 01/19/08 01:36 AM Re: Stationary training [Re: ButterflyPalm]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Uh... it doesn't have to be sexy (by some accepted mainstream definition), nor do I have to think or visualize it to have a "spontaneous" response. In fact, I'm having one right now...

BTW, Zach, I have followed that thread with interest. I am familiar with Dan and where he's coming from. Sure, the bodyskills are found in a cross-section of asian MAs, and I would qualify, TO VARYING DEGREES.

And considering the veil of secrecy surrounding the development of such bodyskills, the questions you have to ask yourself are - Am I getting the full picture? And does my teacher have the full picture? If so, am I still getting the full picture? If not, why not? If you take stock of what Dan is saying, the answer is a flat "no" to the above. So, I find it quite ludicrous for some people to THINK that they already "do" this or "know" this, to come on here and denigrate the few that have a little bit more experience in this.... not that I have any experience or knowledge myself.

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#370761 - 01/19/08 07:57 AM Re: Stationary training [Re: eyrie]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
The point (no pun) I was trying to make in answer to Zach is, WHAT and HOW you visualise will have a subtle and definitive response on and in your body. AND when this form of visualisation is done or coupled with the body being HELD in a specific structure, with just the required amount of tension on different parts of the body in different postures, the "circuit" is complete and the MIND and the BODY will begin to instantly respond to each others SIGNALS; THAT's WHEN the chi will start to flow CONSCIOUSLY because by now your body is, to put it simply, IN TUNE with the thoughts happening in your mind. From here on it's a matter of amplification and magnification.

That is STEP ONE.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#370762 - 01/19/08 02:50 PM Re: Stationary training [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
what do you personally visualize when doing stationary training? ...or maybe I wouldn't want to know.

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