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#369769 - 11/26/07 01:32 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

with prober body dynamics you would be suprised what that position could withstand, when combined with proper body shifting and posture.

and the timing of the technique would be go no sen, the first attack is neturlized, then the counter lands before the opponent can throw a second attack. the counter is designed to stop his ability to throw another threating attack. if the timing of your counter fails, its not the techniques fault, its yours for messing up the timing. all the black belts and knowldege of techniques in the world won't matter if you can't use timing in a fight.

in the technique i outlined, the follow up to the haymaker was not a concern as long as you jolted him to the jaw when you entered into range as you deflected his attacking arm. failuer anywhere in the technique means you won't see the end. i think its a simple one.




A lot of variables there. If the opponent does as you want him to. Your assuming the opponent has his head up? Giving you his chin?
Suggestion.
Have your training partner wear a headgaurd and MMA gloves.
Have him tuck his chin down, opposite fore arm in front of his face and run after you with a lot of haymakers.
Next thing . Have him shout and point and basicly go nuts at you. Then attack when he is ready.
Some people call such training methods getting down and dirty.

From my limited observations. I think
your description seems to be a version of certain( Not all shotokan train only in this manner ) shotokan competition based fighting methods. Very clean and clinical.
People who thow hay makers I doubt if they do shotokan.



Quote

Kendo
Go-no-sen: When the opponent sees a suki and initiates an attack, winning by first striking down the opponent’s sword or parrying, then attacking strongly when the opponent has become discouraged. Also called tai-no-sen.
End of quote.

I think some shotokan fighting methods are based a lot on budo.

Japanese karate.
Go no sen: Seizing the initiative later; Allowing your opponent to attack first so as to open up target for counter-attacks.



Jude


Edited by jude33 (11/26/07 01:50 PM)

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#369770 - 11/26/07 01:47 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
if he tucks his chin, hit him in the temple, or nose. or just use blunt force trama to his guard. it would vary to the situation.

"Next thing . Have him shout and point and basicly go nuts at you. Then attack when he is ready.
Some people call such training methods getting down and dirty."

i don't even know what you just said.

"You description seems to be a version of very shotokan competition based. Very clean and clinical.
People who thow hay makers I doubt if they do shotokan."

competetion based bunkai? i don't train bunkai to compete? how can you? last time i checked haymakers wernt in the shotokan sylabus. the attack i said was a haymaker man, a commen haymaker is an all out barn yard swing. a commen attack in self defence, thats what bunkai is for.

ans yes, i study a budo. heavely based on musashi's work. go no sen, is as you described. your opponents first attack is defeated, then you make your counter before he can hit again. there are shades of grey between the timings and they are interpreted differently. i think boxers call it hitting on the half beat.
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its not supposed to make sense

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#369771 - 11/26/07 01:59 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
one more thing, you said shotokan competetion based. when in fact competetion is based on karate. what ever competetion your trying to imply to please show me an example, and i will probably tell you its not what i do.
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its not supposed to make sense

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#369772 - 11/26/07 02:14 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

if he tucks his chin, hit him in the temple, or nose. or just use blunt force trama to his guard. it would vary to the situation.




Nose? Temple?
Forarm across his face? Running at you?

Can I suggest you try the exercise?
Quote:


"Next thing . Have him shout and point and basicly go nuts at you. Then attack when he is ready.
Some people call such training methods getting down and dirty."

i don't even know what you just said.





They call then animal days. Instead of your training parner
standing and being passive ask him to throw things at you, snarl and get realy aggressive. Then try your technique.

Quote:


"You description seems to be a version of very shotokan competition based. Very clean and clinical.
People who thow hay makers I doubt if they do shotokan."

competetion based bunkai? i don't train bunkai to compete? how can you? last time i checked haymakers wernt in the shotokan sylabus. the attack i said was a haymaker man, a commen haymaker is an all out barn yard swing. a commen attack in self defence, thats what bunkai is for.





Just wiped the tears from my eyes!!

Mawashi/ Age/ Zuki Jodan from the hip ?
Karate Terminology ?

If bunkia is street fighting it might be considered down and dirty.
Dont think competition way of thinking will help somehow.


Just joking.

Quote:


ans yes, i study a budo. heavely based on musashi's work. go no sen, is as you described. your opponents first attack is defeated, then you make your counter before he can hit again. there are shades of grey between the timings and they are interpreted differently. i think boxers call it hitting on the half beat.




I have to admit I dont go for the Japanese way of thinking.
More western at the moment and studying the Okinawan and chinese methods with difficulty being a Westerner.

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#369773 - 11/26/07 02:31 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
whats wrong with the target choices?

"They call then animal days. Instead of your training parner
standing and being passive ask him to throw things at you, snarl and get realy aggressive. Then try your technique."

i said i trained it against a resisting partner. you don't get stonger or faster if you start yelling louder. are you for real?

"If bunkia is street fighting it might be considered down and dirty.
Dont think competition way of thinking will help somehow."

again with the competetion, if there's something you want to say out with it boy. if you don't like the application i won't cry. but please don't offer advice to my trainineg if i don't ask. thanks.
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#369774 - 11/26/07 06:38 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

whats wrong with the target choices?

"They call then animal days. Instead of your training parner
standing and being passive ask him to throw things at you, snarl and get realy aggressive. Then try your technique."

i said i trained it against a resisting partner. you don't get stonger or faster if you start yelling louder. are you for real?

"If bunkia is street fighting it might be considered down and dirty.
Dont think competition way of thinking will help somehow."





I give up.
I must ask for forgive-ness for being unclear.
So I will try to be clearer.

So here is a book.
[url=http://sportzblitz.net/onlinestore/product.php?id=1738&c=&review=1]
http://sportzblitz.net/onlinestore/product.php?id=1738&c=&review=1[/url]

This is a book.

It is called animal day .

He is a 6th dan shotokan.
Quote:


again with the competetion, if there's something you want to say out with it boy. if you don't like the application i won't cry. but please don't offer advice to my trainineg if i don't ask. thanks.





Didnt offer advise.
Just an opinion.
If a person wants to test a technique there are certain seminars here where a person can.
Its called animal day. Pressure testing.They sometimes shout growl and snarl and liken things to real self defence fighting.
It has been said that when certain people attack other people they dont tend to square up.
Geoff Thompson runs animal days but a person would be best advised to check with him if a person can test their own technique or not on his seminars.
Personaly I dont think the application would work. To competition orientated.
But testing it at an/any animal day seminar somewhere might prove me wrong,

Do they have animal days in your Country? Perhaps they arent required.
Thought they were all over.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (11/26/07 07:14 PM)

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#369775 - 11/26/07 08:34 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: jude33]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i have not herd of it, i would say that geof tompsons concepts are probably being trained by some group in canada though, he is a very popular self defence teacher. for good reason too.

usually when we train bunkai, we simply test different levels of intensity in the same session. ranging from going slowly to get the mechanics of it, then progerssion into harder and faster speeds. high intensity is trained, we just don't have an animal day, we are not passive in bunkai pratice.

hopefully if i get a video of the technique it might change your mind, maybe not. at least take a look if it gets posted please, and thanks. i take some offense wen you say that its a competetion based move, when it was designed against an HAOV, and designed to use se of what would be consider illegal attakcs in a competetion arena.
_________________________
its not supposed to make sense

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#369776 - 11/26/07 09:22 PM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: jude33]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
When we practice our bunkai we do it with as much resistance as possible keeping safety in mind. I think Animal day would get someone hurt.

We also spar full contact,but I don't remember anyone ever growling or snarling.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#369777 - 11/27/07 05:22 AM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: BrianS]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

When we practice our bunkai we do it with as much resistance as possible keeping safety in mind. I think Animal day would get someone hurt.

We also spar full contact,but I don't remember anyone ever growling or snarling.




http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

1.43

Well, Some growl , snarl shout.

I should imagine it is getting a person use to dealing with the verbal side of a confrontation.

Jude

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#369778 - 11/27/07 05:25 AM Re: some karate video's for your viewing pleasure [Re: student_of_life]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

3.55 looks like the attack your working the defence against

Jude

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