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#368840 - 11/06/07 04:07 PM Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist?
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Is open hand more suitable for self defense or the fist?

I believe you fight the way you train, when I do bag work I don't leave out my open hand strikes.

I sorta Shadow box the bag (unless I'm doing power training) so I sweep under it and slap under it. I don't so much strike it on top because its hard on the harness.

But back to the topic a lot people say they'd strike with palm on the street but they practice in gloves and only hit with fist even in bag work. Even hand bags I train using open and close hand formation trying to develop a natural flow thats instinctive.

Most men naturally strike with thier fist even if the guards are up in defense. Sometimes the open hand will slip right through.

Do practice U what you preach? Do you train close fisted all the time and think or say you rather strike open if you had to?

Which do or have you actually use in practice or foreal?
No way that works is wrong.


Edited by Neko456 (11/06/07 04:08 PM)
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#368841 - 11/06/07 04:16 PM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
What do you mean "hand-bags"...you mean like a purse?

When I practice for impact training, I use a loose (semi-closed) fist. This allows for relaxation (= speed) & increased ability to grab.

Don't omit the slap (or as some like to refer to it - the "combat slap" which sounds more macho). BTW, it's not the same as your mother's slap.

Back-fist (uraken) can also be done open-handed/semi-closed.

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#368842 - 11/06/07 04:53 PM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
To our resident Master of Shito-ryu who asked for a definition of a hand bag inregards to the topic of striking.

Any striking bag held in the hand to practice movement, power, timing and speed rather then a heavy bag hung from a ceiling or wall.

Opps sorry didn't notice you were from Cailfornia. U need that explanation its so diversed there.



Edited by Neko456 (11/06/07 04:58 PM)
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#368843 - 11/06/07 05:30 PM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: Neko456]
brocksampson Offline
Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: Savannah, GA
I guess I default to the fist but train both. It's according to the "target" I'm after more than anything else.
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#368844 - 11/06/07 06:06 PM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: Neko456]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I train open-hand strikes on the bag, often from the "fence" position. I think open or closed hand strikes can work well for SD. Open hand stuff may be considered less "violent" in the case of police review, so it is a good idea to keep them in consideration.
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#368845 - 11/06/07 09:51 PM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: MattJ]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
When using a closed fist you need to watch what areas you're striking. Hit the wrong spot and you break your hand, which for most of us is a bad thing, especially when it comes to working the next day. If you hit with a palm stike you have a much lesser chance of breaking anything. The bottom line is, I would try to hit with an open hand but I will probably do what ever comes natural at that moment.
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#368846 - 11/07/07 02:16 AM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r fist? [Re: Neko456]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
I prefer open hand now a days, i used to be a puncher (having a strong thai background) but now I'm pretty well open hand.

I do still like using the punch to the jaw as a sniper option, cross or hook, big two knuckles hitting on the chin anywhere between or on the dribble lines, It's also my focus (Kime?) training tool. needs to be drilled well for reality use, but if your able to land with your body behind the two impacting knuckles your virtually guaranteed a KO.

Then again you can do the same thing with a palm heal

Plus with Open hands you have more weapons and options open to you
you have your palm AND 4 fingers and a thumb to poke, scratch, prod, grab and pull with.

There is less energy loss with a palm as there are less joints to past through, less change of injury too (eg boxers break) and you can impact just as hard as a fist (through it doesn't feel like it to the deliverer.

a fist is just a fist.

My thoughts anyway.
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#368847 - 11/07/07 05:48 AM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r f [Re: drgndrew]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I think its probably more natural to clinch the fist autonomically during fights as it is. Its probably better to train your closed hand stuff (besides, I don't know anyone who boxes with open hands).

You can ALSO hurt your hand using open hand strikes.

This isn't to say that you shouldn't train for open hand situations. The clinch requires the open hands. Its just that for long range stuff, I'm not going to be outside and try slapping. The shots are going to be straight and thrown with clinched fists. Once inside, that's another story. Of course from there you can throw elbows and knees anyway, so the point becomes practically moot.

If the possibility of breaking your hand in a fight is something that scares you, you may want to avoid fights altogether, because you can get hurt in many OTHER ways as well. Fights are to be survived. You heal and treat your injuries afterward. Just my opinions.

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#368848 - 11/07/07 06:48 AM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r f [Re: JKogas]
Blackrainbow Offline
Dragon

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 220
Loc: Brandon Fl.USA
I devote about equal time to both. I also have injured myself using both.If you really train hard you will have injuries. If you get into a lot of fights, you will have injuries. If you get old like me and continue to do this stuff you will surely have injuries. Hey, after all, it is the martial arts. As far as which is most effective that is totally up to the person using it.
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#368849 - 11/07/07 07:04 AM Re: Is open hand more suitable for selfdefense r f [Re: JKogas]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

Fights are to be survived. You heal and treat your injuries afterward. Just my opinions.



nicely said
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