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#368662 - 11/06/07 05:21 AM English Karate Federation Draconian Rules?
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

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#368663 - 11/06/07 05:44 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Bossman]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Shocking stuff!

http://shikon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17320#17320




Just seems like some typical petty individuals that allow power to go to their heads.

School children that didint grow up.


Jude

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#368664 - 11/06/07 06:44 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: jude33]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I don't have a dog in this fight, but situations like this are always "all about the money". "Somebody" is afraid that fees or payments will go to somebody outside of their organization, and so they "go gestapo" on their members.

Rules like this have the effect of killing organizations rather than making them stronger. When this is "in place", it stops cross-training, and people have to make a choice "either/or" whatever style or association is enforcing its rules, and they become stagnant as groups.

I've had 45 years of watching this kind of petty money-grubbing take place, and it usually goes back to one or two people in a group that want all the money to come to them. Some of these "teachers" need to learn that they don't know it all, and their students and fellow teachers don't need their petty avarice to stop them from learning new things.

I've only joined two associations in 45 years, and both of them are "open" associations, while still focused on a style and particular art. I don't think my karate friends should be telling me I can't study Aikido or Jujutsu, or can only study with "their" teachers. I believe in getting as close to the source as possible when studying an art, and have trained with karate masters such as Hidetaka Nishiyama and Shogo Kuniba. I've trained with Aikido teachers like Fumio Toyoda and Yamada Sensei... none of what I learned from them destroyed the other's teaching, or cost so much that it affected their income significantly.

It's a narrow view of greedy people, and if the people training with them are any good, they can watch videos and DVD's and pick up a lot of their "stuff" anyway, so they aren't really protecting anything. It's all about controlling other people...

Just my 2 cents worth.... FWIW




_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#368665 - 11/06/07 07:38 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Bossman]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Not surprizing. many other organizations are similar by stating that you automatically loose membership if you join another org. same goofiness.

Federation, Association, Standards Agency, etc... when you think of their function, do what exactly? by giving them an annual fee, they will acknowledge your rank.

whoop-de-do. level of understanding in an Art is a guage that only matters between a student and a teacher. 2 people. paying a third party to decree that your level of understanding is on par with others of the same rank, is not only false (not all shodans are equal), but silly.

no third party even has to know people's 'rank', let alone recognize it.

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#368666 - 11/06/07 07:38 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: wristtwister]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Wow!

It looks like a segregation plot . Surely as a bona fide and respectable Governing body, I would be more concerned about how members are portraying themselves within the organisation, rather than who the members are allowed to 'play' with.

I'm not a member of this organisation, so I can still attend Non-Member courses etc.

Question: 1

There is enough of us on this forum, could we not set up a Worldwide Governing Body that covers all on this forum and provides Liability Insurance, Certificates, training Courses etc for its members?

Osu.

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

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#368667 - 11/06/07 08:40 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Dobbersky]
Blackrainbow Offline
Dragon

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 220
Loc: Brandon Fl.USA
Unfortunately there is nothing new here. Way back in the stone age when some cave man decided he could make a profit by teaching another cave man to knap flint, rules like these were put in force to protect the profit margin. It's all about protecting the turf under the guise of maintaining quality and order. I can start back in the 1960's and start naming a bunch of MA orgs. that used to be the power houses of competition MA's but no longer exist just because of this type of attitude. It's the main reason I no longer belong to or support the activities of any of the "world" or U.S. governing bodies.
_________________________
You cannot defend against that which you do not understand

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#368668 - 11/08/07 06:35 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Dobbersky]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Being the "big dog" in the martial arts world is what all these associations want to do. They are driven by "style" or "art", or whatever petty little thought process to try to gain control over other people and both their money and "progress". What has allowed MA to survive is the diversity of the situation, where you're free to choose where to train, what to train, and what level you have to be in order to progress.

Also, you don't just set up a "world governing body". It has to be authorized by somebody that's actually in charge legally of the outcomes, and responsible for the material passed on to students or competitors. It has tax consequences, legal restrictions, and obligations... which translates again into "money".

The idea has been around for centuries... take charge of everybody else's life, and only give them what you want them to have... I think Hitler, Stalin, and a few other people throughout history did that on another level... Sounds like the karate federation is already headed that way, so I can't figure out why we need another group doing the same thing?

Rank is the honorary standard of the people you train with... so under your "governing body", a guy in Indonesia or Thailand is going to be able to set the standard for Korean TKD or European Shotokan?... I don't think so...

It's a grand design... and had MA developed in a manner and way that accommodated it, it might have worked "early on", but simply "assuming power" over something like MA wouldn't be as easy as you think. In some countries, the governments are the "governing body" for MA... so you'd have to also be a U.N. member to make it work...

Send me my requirements... I'll try to live up to them...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#368669 - 11/08/07 06:45 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: wristtwister]
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
They're in breach of IOC statutes and EU law so if they carry on that way they'll just be an empty shell.
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

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#368670 - 11/08/07 09:41 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Bossman]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
In old China, you would be "suspended" from the ceiling for joining another organisation.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#368671 - 11/09/07 11:45 AM Re: English Karate Federation Draconian Rules? [Re: Bossman]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I think the statute was misinterpreted by design to intimidate. Don't buy it & file a formal complaint w/ the WKF. The process to file a complaint is also in the bylaws.

What an AZZ.

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