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#368520 - 11/13/07 10:49 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
how has it been magical thinking? for starters the leaps to conclusion that it takes to go

from:
"if I hit this particular spot in training, it causes mucho pain to the uke."
to:
"therefore, I must have hit correctly the point on a meridian that my sensei says causes death....and he must be right since I can also see where that point is on an old Chinese meridian map which was drawn by an unknown author a 1000 years ago....plus the field of accupuncture uses meridian maps to work thier wonder treatments to help folks quit gambling and feel better about themselves...plus western medicine hasn't disproved meridian theory....ancient lost wisdom...whoa..."

kinda like that.

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#368521 - 11/13/07 10:58 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Quote:

how has it been magical thinking? for starters the leaps to conclusion that it takes to go

from:
"if I hit this particular spot in training, it causes mucho pain to the uke."
to:
"therefore, I must have hit correctly the point on a meridian that my sensei says causes death....and he must be right since I can also see where that point is on an old Chinese meridian map which was drawn by an unknown author a 1000 years ago....plus the field of accupuncture uses meridian maps to work thier wonder treatments to help folks quit gambling and feel better about themselves...plus western medicine hasn't disproved meridian theory....ancient lost wisdom...whoa..."

kinda like that.


Is that the best you can come up with!? Show me exactly where (please reference the exact posts) either Grady or I have said this???? Or anything to that effect...

If the best you can come up with is thinly veiled insults, vagaries and blatant twisting of the facts to suit your argument, then you must be positively moronic to think that no one is going to respond in a fashion of fighting fire with fire.

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#368522 - 11/13/07 11:04 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I paraphrased the jist of the logic flow...it was not a quote.


"therefore, I must have hit correctly the point on a meridian that my sensei says causes death"

grady said that everyone accepts an amount of faith from their sensei. when I agreed but showed that there are degrees of accepting, the point died.


"....and he must be right since I can also see where that point is on an old Chinese meridian map which was drawn by an unknown author a 1000 years ago"

There are plenty of old texts showing from crude to detailed hand-drawn maps. some authors are known, some unknown. no two maps that I've seen, match exactly. The concept of 'accepted points' or 'official points' or 'regulated points' is a new concept, worked out during the 1950's overhaul of CCM folk remedies to create the modern 'TCM' product you see today.

"....plus the field of accupuncture uses meridian maps to work thier wonder treatments to help folks quit gambling and feel better about themselves"

accupuncture and meridian-based wellness care does not cure. it serves to sooth, at best.


"...plus western medicine hasn't disproved meridian theory"
doesn't need to any more than it would need to disprove that massage feels good.


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#368523 - 11/13/07 11:09 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: wristtwister]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Eyrie,
we're dealing with people here that really don't want to learn anything or define anything.




That's probably the most condescending and arrogant post I've ever read. Right up there with unyu. Sheesh...


Quote:

I gave Matt a link to a book that gives a good description of what each point in the meridian systems does when struck properly, but there's no information about the angles, depth of strike, or any of the chi information they would need to practice DM. I could point him to that as well, but why bother... it's all about being a big dog on the internet board to them. They actually have no interest in the subject... just throwing out smartass comments and sniping at the information if they don't like the answers.





How can he learn from someone who talks down him? Is that the way you learned DM?
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#368524 - 11/13/07 11:10 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Not only is your logic faulty, but your thinking is equally sloppy.

If you are going to insinuate, take things out of context, and make such sweeping accusatory statements, then have the f**king decency to man-up and SHOW me EXACTLY where this was said.

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#368525 - 11/13/07 11:13 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

we meet up for a friendly sharing. let's say you show DM striking training method. Much to your satisfaction, you demonstrate by causing pain via putting pressure on certian points while I'm standing there (or wrething like Luke in the end of star wars VI - whichever the case may be). cool. but it's nothing different from a presure point demo - some points hurt more than others - and some points are in slightly different areas than others between person-to-person. (which is why I find general area targets work just fine and the training method doesn't go to mush when things get messy).






That is exactly how my pressure point studies have gone. They work good in a grappling situation to distract or just cause pain.

DM is unproveable.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#368526 - 11/13/07 11:14 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I added to previous post. also, which part of "it was not a quote" didn't you understand?

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#368527 - 11/13/07 11:26 PM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
So, I see, taking it out of context and putting your own interpretation on what someone else says gives you license to insult them? What sort of logic is that?

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#368528 - 11/14/07 12:00 AM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
"poetic license" ? kidding.

so I take it you are done discussing the points of the topic?


I think it's a valid argument which hasn't been adressed: with pressure/vital point based training it's obvious what the damage will be if it were full intent. With Dim Mak, you need faith that the point you are practicing is correct for the claimed effect.

so I'm still wondering, what qualifies as a success during training? inflicting pain at a certain point? fine, but how is that different from vital/pressure training? and does anything happen if you DO do it right? does the uke die? if not, how do you know it was correct? also, how many accidental deaths have there been during DM training? how many delayed failed kidneys? were the conditions pre-existing or were they training related? Shouldn't a responsible DM instructor make it a requirement for students to disclose their medical history? pre-existing conditions, I'd think, would be crucial to know.

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#368529 - 11/14/07 12:16 AM Re: This is worth watching. [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
btw, I think these are very valid question even BEFORE stepping up on a mat with an instructor that is going to 'show' you Dim Mak.

let's say my teenagers (if they were let's say 17 years old) are interested in studying it with a suppossedly qualified instructor. I'd ask all these questions and more before letting them even step on the mat.

They are responsible questions directed to an Art that claims it can screw with people's health at will. you guys are claiming qualification in Dim Mak, so I expect responsible answers.
"seek an instructor" is not a responsible answer in this case, since it's important to know exacly the mechanisms used for training method BEFORE showing up at a DM class.

persuading people not to ask questions about this training method, doesn't put a very good light on the training....makes it rather 'shady'.

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