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#368356 - 11/04/07 03:11 PM Pressure points in Qin-Na
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Pressure points are very helpful in Qin-Na and serve a purpose. I've picked up 2 good books at seminars at Yang,Jwing Ming's in Boston on the subject if anyone is looking for good resources. They include instructions and photos on how to do the techniques, the pressue points and anatomy of Qin-Na and also the training exercises and finger strengthening exercises that you need to get proficient.

They are Analysis of Shaolin Qin-Na and the other is Comprehensive Applications of Shaolin Qin-Na.

We were working Qin-Na today in my Kyusho class. The pressure point applications are pretty deep. I'm often finding new ones even for locks I'm pretty good at.
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#368357 - 11/05/07 12:58 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: underdog]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Pressure points are very helpful in Qin-Na and serve a purpose. I've picked up 2 good books at seminars at Yang,Jwing Ming's in Boston on the subject if anyone is looking for good resources. They include instructions and photos on how to do the techniques, the pressue points and anatomy of Qin-Na and also the training exercises and finger strengthening exercises that you need to get proficient.

They are Analysis of Shaolin Qin-Na and the other is Comprehensive Applications of Shaolin Qin-Na.

We were working Qin-Na today in my Kyusho class. The pressure point applications are pretty deep. I'm often finding new ones even for locks I'm pretty good at.




Hi

How much were the books?

Just a suggestion.
If we say started with the hand/ wrist /arm
and discussed where the points are? In relationship to muscle/ tendons/ nerves etc.

And the result of striking/ pressure or manipulation might be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejIyjIwtHjY
At 1.06 I can see a thumb in to the wrist?


Jude

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#368358 - 11/05/07 01:11 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: jude33]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
You can find Dr Yang's books and videos here: http://www.ymaa.com/

Other interesting vids here:
http://www.martialdvd.com/shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=32

I always reccomend finding a good teacher. But in absence videos and books can help a lot.

The result of striking or manipulating a pressure point can vary. There can be pain, dizziness, fainting, etc. depending on where you strike and how. Although Chin Na translates to mean "seize and control", so there is not a lot of striking. It is holding, locking, etc.

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#368359 - 11/05/07 01:55 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: JAMJTX]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

You can find Dr Yang's books and videos here: http://www.ymaa.com/

Other interesting vids here:
http://www.martialdvd.com/shop/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=32

I always reccomend finding a good teacher. But in absence videos and books can help a lot.

The result of striking or manipulating a pressure point can vary. There can be pain, dizziness, fainting, etc. depending on where you strike and how. Although Chin Na translates to mean "seize and control", so there is not a lot of striking. It is holding, locking, etc.




I think it is Dr Jang I saw doing some good strengthening exercises. This is my point about the internal arts. Any how thanks for the links. Would you like to discuss experiences you have had using pressure points in your martial arts?

Jude

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#368360 - 11/05/07 08:24 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: jude33]
underdog Offline
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Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
This will be great. As soon as I can play that clip, I'll look up what he says about the technique pointwise, in the book and comment on what works for me, sure. I'd love to discuss this. You got to play the clip. Do you know what technique he is using? He has his own nomenclature. Is this "small wrap hand"? If we discuss Dr. Yang's material, we have to give his name for the techniques plus whatever other name you want because his naming system is unique for his schools.
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#368361 - 11/23/07 10:59 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: jude33]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Go figure, but a lot of what was being done in that video was Aikido as well as Chin Na. They had excellent nikkyo skills, and most of the other techniques were very ju-jitsu-ish, which most Chin Na looks like. None of it was anything that a good jujutsu or Aikido practitioner hasn't seen (other than maybe the leg-trip throw... The Aikido players wouldn't use that kind of technique normally.) A jujutsuka might actually roll that up into a leg pin.

Dr Yang's techniques are all very good, and in true Chinese fashion, very relaxed. Now that I've "peaked out" age-wise in all my ballistic arts, maybe I'll get involved in Chin Na... I need a good sedentary art to practice...



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#368362 - 11/23/07 11:34 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: wristtwister]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
I often refer to Chin Na as "Chinese Jujutsu" when people ask about it.
The "nikyo" and other 'Aikido techniques" are found in so many different styles, including Taichi and other Chinese.

There are, however, different variations which makes the styles more interesting. Dr Yang has a special way of adding some additional pain to the techniques that are common to Aikido such as the "nikyo". There are other styles that teach "finger locks" as were stressed at the Dr Yang seminar I went to. They may look the same, but again, they don't feel the same. Dr. Yang's finger locks lock the whole are up though the shoulder. Others are just bending back the fingers.

I would encourage martial artists of all styles to train with Dr Yang if they can get a chance. Although now he will be doing far fewer seminars as he gets his new CA training center established. It will still be worth going to train with any of this students.

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#368363 - 11/23/07 12:00 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: JAMJTX]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
He still has a very large world wide network of schools. There are, for example, a couple of very good people here in Boston, at his international headquarters, to study with. I count my time at this school amongst my best spent outside of my own home school in my own art.
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#368364 - 11/23/07 12:02 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: underdog]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Wristtwister? Are you ever "sedate"? I actually don't think of qin na as sedate.
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#368365 - 11/23/07 12:34 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: underdog]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Rosanne,
I can't feed the dogs without injuring something any more, but I'm still dumb enough to keep showing up at the dojo and training, bad back and all. The "sedate" was a joke... I do what I can until something quits working... usually, back or hips.

In Aikido class several years ago, somebody made the comment that "Mr. B seldom moves much". One of the better students we had at the time commented: "Oh, he can hardly move... the problem is, he can kill everybody in the dojo in that condition..."

Sedate means different things to different people... I mean it in a more relaxed format of training, such as the soft grabs and twist locks of Chin Na. Being thrown ballistically like I have been in Judo and Aikido over the past years isn't as appealing to my back and hips as it once was.

I do just enough karate to keep my skills up, but they're still better than most of those that are training in our school... mostly because they are learning junk. Luckily, I'm not involved to any degree in that program... or life as they know it would change dramatically. I'd have them doing all that useless punching from a horse stance, and using that "stuff that doesn't exist" in their techniques.

Maybe "sedate" was the wrong word...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#368366 - 11/23/07 03:26 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: wristtwister]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I understood what you meant. Tone of voice and other paraverbals don't come through well on forum posts without the cartoon figures, which I seldom use. I was teasing back for what I thought was an overstatement on your part.

From what I've come to know of you through the forum, you are a well rounded and fully potentially lethal warrior for whom I have a lot of respect. I have learned a few things from you. I have learned some things that I had to pursue with aikido people in person, because I learned from you that they would be worth knowing, but hard to communicate via forum.

You are in similar position, I guess, to where I am except that I never had your level of skill and I am female. At 59, I should be paying more attention to my risk of injury and taking that more seriously. Problem is, I love what I am doing so much, that I hate to cut back.

The LIGHT qin-na practice that I was getting at Yang's in Boston was good. Skilled people could practice with little resistance and low risk of injury. Still, after a 3 day seminar, you wonder about the integrity of your wrists, but if you are practicing with jerks who want to resist and not relax, and yank through their movements, you wouldn't have any joints at all.

The weekly classes were 1 1/2 hours. They taught me a lot about how to move. They improved all of my skills a lot, not just qin-na.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#368367 - 11/23/07 04:15 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: underdog]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
I've been told the undertaker will have to tie me in my coffin, so I understand your joke. I'm just too hard-headed to slow down, so I pay for it. I might hobble to class, then go full speed (hurting all the way) and then hobble home.

As for "wrist strength", I've been doing jujutsu for 45 years, so that's not a problem. My orthopedic surgeon always brings his nurses in and has me show them my wrist flexibility, which he says is abnormal for someone my age. I think it's just my "keeping them in shape" by doing my stretching exercises.

As for the "jerks" in training, I have one simple solution... twist the wrist. Mechanically, the wrist drives the elbows and shoulders when rotated in either direction, and if somebody is exceptionally strong, simply step out so they're "reaching", and you can twist their wrist with a few ounces of pressure. When stretching them out, use your whole body to move to your position, and they will have to reach to "stay connected". After that, it's watching where they land that's the problem...

By the way, don't be afraid to use your pressure point training to "motivate" some of the jerks to move their arms... they might whine about it, but they'll comply... if they're yanking on you, yank back... just wait until you're at the point of surrender for them. A few of those and you can say, "want to play nice, or do I need to hurt you?" After all, you're just learning something, not actually defending yourself... but you can change that equation at will...

Don't forget that you can always request a different partner.



Edited by wristtwister (11/23/07 04:16 PM)
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#368368 - 01/16/08 09:17 PM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: underdog]
winterwarrior Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 19
Dr. yan is one onf the pre-eminent teachers of combat taichi and pressure point use.

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#368369 - 01/17/08 04:18 AM Re: Pressure points in Qin-Na [Re: winterwarrior]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Oh yes I know. I value all the time I spent in that school. He taught me much, he directly, and more so one of his senior instructors, Jim Noble, who taught the Saturday morning class I went to. It all served me very well in my home kenpo style in the school where I hold rank. Now, Master Yang's son, I believe runs the Boston campus while Master Yang is in California pursuing his new venture with highly committed full time students.
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