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#366820 - 01/26/08 03:23 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: fileboy2002]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Quote:

I am willing to believe you were unaware Hawking was a nonbeliever. What I do not understand is why, not knowing much about him, you chose to cite him as support for your views.




Either yesterday or the day before I visited www.digg.com. One of the articles was a a compilation of Hawkings quotes. There was also a very fetching portrait of him sculpted in LEGO'S. I simply stumbled upon it. I found it interesting and looked at a few more Hawking related posts.

When you posted about the two scientific organizations I realised Hawking was a member of both. I chuckled at the intersection of time, energy and chance.

Also, for claritys sake I did not use Hawkings quote to support my views. I believed I was using his words to support his views.

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#366821 - 01/26/08 05:08 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

"

Without religion, you would have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But to get good people to do evil things, you need religion."

Actually, that quote is not originally Dawkins'. He was paraphrasing Christopher Hitchens, who in turn was paraphrasing someone else (I do not recall who at the moment).





Well I am not paraphrasing anybody but the above statement doesnt make sense.

Do you agree or disagree with it?
Care to explain it?



Quote:


In other words, I did not plagerize anything. I was passing on a metaphor that had already been in widespread use for a long time. There is nothing dishonest about that.







Have you ever given your opinion on anything?
Quote:


I am willing to believe you were unaware Hawking was a nonbeliever.




I am unwilling to believe you have even considered asking him. From what I can gather he does answer his emails.

So on what basis do you state that he doesnt believe?


.
Quote:


What I do not understand is why, not knowing much about him, you chose to cite him as support for your views.




What I do not understand is on what basis are your views? I dont think you have given any basis.
Please inform us.
Quote:


Hawking made an interesting observation about a hypothetical God when he wrote, "One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics." [Stephen Hawking, Black Holes & Baby Universes]






The creation of the universe is still considered a guess.
Or were you present?

Quote:



This brings me back to what I was saying originally. I did not criticize God in particular, but belief in the supernatural more generally.




Fileboy could you do some reading. Do you mean A God or a personal God that you didint criticise?





The word "supernatural" means beyond or above nature. Supernatural forces by nature defy the laws of the universe, which makes them extremely doubtful.

Of course, it is always possible natural laws exist which we have yet to discover. However, some of the claims made in MA circles--about chi, thoughforms, etc--violate natural laws we HAVE discovered and understand fairly well.




So are you calling some religion's super natural?
Or did I misunderstand your elusive way of stating things? Please clarify?

I think your trying to get out of the argument. I have given you his email address so how about you e mail him and ask him, then post your findings.

It was stated somewhere else on the forum that it would seem your attempting to be something your not.

I have realy tried to make it easy for you. I have given you the e mail address. Do you need the website as well?
I am not sure how else I can realy help you!!

Are we back on the chi thing?
Wrong thread perhaps?

Jude.


Edited by jude33 (01/26/08 05:22 PM)

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#366822 - 01/26/08 06:07 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: jude33]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
jude33,

I am not sure what good it does to speak to you because you don't read very thoroughly and seem to misunderstand most of what you do read. But I'll give it one last shot.

1)"Well I am not paraphrasing anybody but the above statement doesnt make sense.

Do you agree or disagree with it?
Care to explain it?"

I am not surprised you did not understand this because it was not addressed to you; I was responding to a post by oldman. Please read more carefully next time. In any case, oldman thought I had lifted a quote from Richard Dawkins w/o crediting him for it. I pointed out it was a paraphrase, not a quote, and that it did not originate with Dawkins.

2) "Have you ever given your opinion on anything?"

All the time. If you don't know that, you either do not know what an "opinion" is or cannot read English properly.

3)"What I do not understand is on what basis are your views? I dont think you have given any basis."

Again, you are confused because I was not talking to you this time. In any case, you're response was a non-sequitor, a Latin term meaning "does not follow." It had nothing to do with anyhting I said.

4)"I am unwilling to believe you have even considered asking him. From what I can gather he does answer his emails.

So on what basis do you state that he doesnt believe?"

Here you are attacking my claim that Hawking is an atheist. Your logic seems to be since he does not answer letters (which would be cumbersome for anyone suffering from ALS), I could not possibly know what he thinks. But you forgot something: Hawking writes books, and I read books. That is how I know he is an atheist. If reading a whole book is too hard for you, just plug ther words "Hawking" and "atheism" into Google and see for yourself--he is an atheist.

5)"The creation of the universe is still considered a guess.
Or were you present?"

This is beyond ignorance. The creation of the universe is not a guess and has not been for generations. The Big Bang theory is widely accepted by scientists and has passed multiple tests that could have falsified it but didn't. Everyone in the US with a high school education knows about the Big Bang theory--why don't you?

6)"Fileboy could you do some reading. Do you mean A God or a personal God that you didint criticise?"

A guy who has never heard of the Bing Bang theory says I need to read more? What a joke!Jude33, are you by some chance a teenager or soemthing? I am beginning to suspect it. No one can live to adulthood knowing so little.

Of course when I spoke of God I meant God as represented by the world's organized religions. How could I know anything about a "personal" god that someone invented on their own?

After that bit you go on and ask me things that in no way relate to anything I said, like whether I believed some religions were supernatural. I said i do not believe in the supernatural, so this makes no sense.

Look, this is the longest and last response you will ever get from me. I now firmly beleive I am talking to a young person with limited English who is really not qualified to discuss serious topics with adults. Say what you like, but I am not wasting any more time on you.

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#366823 - 01/26/08 07:26 PM PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: fileboy2002]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Ok guys this is a warning shot from me.

Please refrain from starting a flame war and/or namecalling situation. I do not want a discussion of politics or religion taking this thread to the next stage which is a lockdown.

The thread is starting to look like it may cause WW3 so you have all been warned!

pull your heads in
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#366824 - 01/26/08 08:39 PM Re: PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: Reiki]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Thanks for the warning, but this thread is dead as far as i am concerned.

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#366825 - 01/26/08 10:58 PM Re: PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: fileboy2002]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Thanks for the warning, but this thread is dead as far as i am concerned.




Fine by me. Dont worry be happy. Chi exists.

Jude



Edited by jude33 (01/26/08 10:59 PM)

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#366826 - 01/28/08 12:32 AM Re: PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: fileboy2002]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
fileboy maybe you should get your facts straight before spouting off about other peoples beliefs...

Quote:

Now, lest anyone be confused, let me state that Hawking strenuously denies charges that he is an atheist. When he is accused of that he really gets angry and says that such assertions are not true at all. He is an agnostic or deist or something more along those lines. He's certainly not an atheist and not even very sympathetic to atheism.



http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9501/bigbang2.html

bushi

You can't lump everyone together and profile them. What about all the so called Christians who beat their spouses, do drugs, molest children and commit murder? What about all the preachers who molest children? I've seen countless "Christians" who do unspeakable deeds only to beg their god for forgiveness or in some cases blame their god for giving up on them. I don't judge people based on their beliefs or disbeliefs, i prefer to look at their actions. I've known many people who have spent their lives for others, both believers and non believers and i have come across some foul people in my day both believers and non. I don't push my beliefs on others and expect the same respect. I don't chastise people for their beliefs and again expect the same respect. I've looked at several religions just so i can have an understanding of what they are about. My wife and i are both atheist but we have no intentions of forcing our beliefs on our children. We teach our kids about a variety of religions, their similarities and differences and what we believe. It's our intention to let them decide how they want to live. I personally don't feel the need to thank a "higher power" for what I have worked hard for or blame them for the things that are wrong in the world. I'm responsible for my actions.

I don't think any less or more of people based on their beliefs. I give each individual their own opportunity to show me what kind of person they are. If people choose to look down on me for being an atheist then they are just showing their ignorance.

Just for the record i don't live by any "code". I don't have any set of guidelines or rules that i stick to. Every situation is different with me and i treat it as such.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#366827 - 01/28/08 06:44 AM Re: PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: laf7773]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Lane, I'm going to say the same thing I said in the "Some cops are idiots" thread. In every group of people you have the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Let us not forget that the KKK interprets the Bible in a way that they can justify their racist beliefs. But then again, you have personages such as Mother Theresa or Billy Graham who were wholeheartedly dedicated to what they believe in, and spent their entire lives working for that belief. And you would be the first person I've ever communicated with who claims to be an atheist for no other reason than you just don't believe in any god or afterlife.

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#366828 - 01/28/08 07:27 AM Re: PLEASE SETTLE DOWN & PLAY NICELY [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
"...you would be the first person I've ever communicated with who claims to be an atheist for no other reason than you just don't believe in any god or afterlife"

"...claims?..." So you do not believe he does not believe in god or the afterlife.


I have seen flowers come in stony places,
And kind things done by men with ugly faces,
And the gold cup won by the worst horse at the races.

John Masefield.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#366829 - 01/28/08 07:48 AM Re: thoughtforms or forms of thought? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I believe that there are unknowns - the 'afterlife' concept being one of them. if you want to use the word 'God', thats fine with me...just don't kill me over it in order to prove your point.

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