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#366750 - 10/25/07 04:39 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: harlan]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
OK Harlan, I'll be all feminist and I'll behave!

I think the validity of the thread here is that we may consider whether thought-forms are something which can be 'conjured' through intense meditation.

A famous description of a shamanic ceremony in Siberia has the shaman meditating before calling up his spirit helpers. In a sense it might be argued that he has to meditate to concentrate and focus on projecting these thought forms.
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#366751 - 10/25/07 07:27 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: trevek]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
When these things (or if) are conjured into physical manifestatiosn are they really real or simply mass hypnosis or something? It's easy to make those things real for oyurself and hallucinate but how does it happen to other people too who don't know about your conjuring activities? Any scientific explanation?
Could this be a reason for schizophrenia or other mental disabilities i nsome cases?
_________________________
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#366752 - 10/26/07 07:46 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Stormdragon]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Stormdragon, there is rarely "scientific" explanation for a very intense spiritual experience. Scientists and doctors can study all they want, and tell us what is actually going on inside the brain and body, but they can't tell if there is an outside stimulus causing it or not.

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#366753 - 10/27/07 01:50 AM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
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Actually they can in many cases using MRI among other methods.
So what do you think about this stuff from an objective point of view? How can it affect other people which is said to often happen?
_________________________
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#366754 - 10/28/07 12:12 AM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Stormdragon]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Stormdragon, they can MRI all they want, but that only shows what activity is going on, it still says nothing about the stimulus causing it.

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#366755 - 10/28/07 03:44 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Stormdragon]
fileboy2002 Offline
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
They are colorful myths.

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#366756 - 10/28/07 06:00 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: fileboy2002]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
If you do osmething (I.E stimulate) someone and then all of a sudden one part of the brain lights up yo uget a pretty good idea that that is the cause. If we didn't have any idea what caused stuff there would be n psychology or sociology. Judging by the effectiveness of mental health professionals in recent history they must know something. I'm sorry but they at least have a good idea on many things and that is fact. Need I post evidence?
Anyway myths gotta have SOMETHING to them.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#366757 - 10/29/07 04:33 AM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Stormdragon]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Fileboy, your most recent posts make me wonder how you've lasted this long.

Stormdragon, go to a Charismatic Pentecostal church service sometime. You could watch the entire worship segment postulating that a is happening because of b neurotransmitter being released in heavy amounts, but the fact is, there is no knowing why b neurotransmitter is being released in heavy amounts. I've had some pretty intense spiritual experiences, both as a Buddhist, and as a Charismatic Christian, and I tried at one time to understand the cause. I've found that just accepting some things are a matter of faith is the best course. The best way to understand a spiritual experience is to have one yourself.

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#366758 - 10/29/07 05:40 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
So have I and I've also studied psychology, sociology and physiology very in depth. Yo ushould take a look at the full story before making decisions based entirely on one paradigm. Intense speritual experiences are usually, almost always in fact, easy to explain, it is the release of heavy doses of neurotransmitters, "pleasure" emitters, and in the case of prayer or meditation it is simply a shift in brain state resulting in an increased output of alpha waves and a sleep like state. Not likely the divine hand of God magically making you wiser or doing things. I believe the mind can do incredible thigns but I also believe it's simply our minds doing what they have evolved to do.
I know what you mean about strong speritual experiences I was raised Christian and have been to Pnetecostal, and Baptist churches, I've experienced, I've also experienced how easily it is to become desensitized and for the experience to change. It's not unlike a drug, only it's natural. It's a natural high. You can get the same feeling from sex but does that make it speritual? No it means it releases the right combination of chemicals in your brain.
Anyway we have evolved those particular sequences of chemical release as a survival mechanism, according to the latest evidence. I mean it doesn't mean those experiences are less powerful but it also doesn't mean they are some magical deal but simply a natural process. Why does it HAVE to be so fantastic?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#366759 - 10/29/07 08:21 PM Re: Thoughtforms-maybe this board is right? [Re: Stormdragon]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Who said it had to be fantastic. I just say that spiritual experiences are just that, spiritual. I've also studied psych, soc, and phys, and I agree, knowing both sides of the story is of great benefit. I'm just glad you are truly exploring the issue, and not attacking spirituality, as I've seen way too often.

You are about to go through something very spiritual yourself- Basic Combat Training. There's another thing, don't limit your perception of the spiritual just because such an experience didn't happen in a setting of worship.

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