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#366698 - 10/23/07 01:10 AM Defending your wallet against KM schools. . .
BrokenNose Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 12
I thought I would ask on this forum how other Krav Maga schools around the world operate.

I've been a member of the local Krav Maga school for about a year and a half. At every turn I am getting tagged for more money for special seminars, asked to buy more clothing, extended class training, etc.

The instructors are constantly informing us that what we learn in regular KM class is not enough and we need to attend all the various weekly seminars that they offer and all of these seminars are not cheap. We are talking $$$$.

I'm just a guy that is looking to stay in shape and maybe learn something practical. I'm not about turning myself into a killing machine. I've got a life apart from KM that the instructors don't seem to appreciate.

The classes have become so full that students are often asked to share equipment or take their turn to practice a maneuver which I find unacceptable as it seems every students has to pay in full to participate half the time in class.

Forget about trying to cancel the bullet-proof contract they make you sign.

It seems KM, at least in my city, has turned into a fast-food self-defense system, catering to the lowest common denominator.

How does it work for everyone else?


Edited by MrMoyer (12/21/07 11:15 AM)

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#366699 - 10/23/07 07:18 AM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrokenNose]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
You are right on the money (no pun intended).

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#366700 - 10/23/07 09:29 AM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrokenNose]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
What you describe is the the pure essence of the "McDojo" phenomina which so many loathe & too many suffer. Escape by every means possible and request in writing they release you from your contract... Looked briefly for the thread link re: to how to break a McDojo contract but could not find it (yet).

J

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#366701 - 10/23/07 10:01 AM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: Ronin1966]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#366702 - 10/23/07 02:56 PM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrokenNose]
Dedicated1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 399
Loc: Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
It doesn't have as much to do with Krav as it does the school. Not all schools operate that way. You shouldn't have to pay for training that is supposed to be included in your monthly tuition. What you pay for the program Monthly should cover all your training. Seminars are an extra activity but they usually cover more than just Krav stuff, which makes them worth the added cost. By no means should they be a requirement to your Krav training. If there are any other Krav locations near by, I would check them out.
_________________________
If your in a "Fair Fight", your tactics suck.

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#366703 - 10/23/07 03:36 PM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrokenNose]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Brokennose

Nope, that is stuff that needs to be addressed--its not normal nor should be acceptable.

A growing school sometime has "growing pains" but those problems should be addressed with the members.

You didn't sign a contract did you????
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#366704 - 10/23/07 08:46 PM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: cxt]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Brokennose

Nope, that is stuff that needs to be addressed--its not normal nor should be acceptable.

A growing school sometime has "growing pains" but those problems should be addressed with the members.

You didn't sign a contract did you????




I think he did.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#366705 - 10/23/07 09:15 PM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrianS]
BrokenNose Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 12
I signed the contract and I asked about getting it canceled and they said "NO!"

Ok, I did go to an intro class, I am an adult, and I signed on the dotted line. On the first day it felt like a good thing. However, they did not let me know of the extra seminars that are REQUIRED if I am to progress to the next level. These are extra seminars that cost $$$.

There isn't a day when one of the instructors isn't pushing clothes, a seminar or getting people to sign up for more time. It would seem to me that a good school would have people extending their time automatically.

And yes, I do realize that it is a business and the instructors are there to make money and a living, so who ends up winning and losing here.

Ok, can I vent about one more thing?

I've seen the Human Weapon on television and the Krav Maga they show does not resemble the Krav Maga I am shown. The Krav Maga I see on You Tube does not resemble the Krav Maga I am shown.

Shouldn't all versions of Krav Maga be the same?

One more thing:

Is Krav Maga the ONLY proven self-defense system in the world, as I am often told?

Maybe I am just upset at the thought I having to go to a school where I don't want to be. Sorry about the vent.

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#366706 - 10/23/07 10:40 PM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrokenNose]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I think you have a lot of misconceptions and hopefully I can help you clear some things up.

Quote:

I signed the contract and I asked about getting it canceled and they said "NO!"





All I can say there is lesson learned. No contracts! Ever!

Quote:

Ok, I did go to an intro class, I am an adult, and I signed on the dotted line. On the first day it felt like a good thing. However, they did not let me know of the extra seminars that are REQUIRED if I am to progress to the next level. These are extra seminars that cost $$$.





Ofcourse, they sold you, plain and simple.

Quote:

There isn't a day when one of the instructors isn't pushing clothes, a seminar or getting people to sign up for more time. It would seem to me that a good school would have people extending their time automatically




Makes sense to me too.

Quote:

I've seen the Human Weapon on television and the Krav Maga they show does not resemble the Krav Maga I am shown. The Krav Maga I see on You Tube does not resemble the Krav Maga I am shown.

Shouldn't all versions of Krav Maga be the same?





No. Not all goju karate resembles the same,not all tkd resembles the same, etc...
It's all dependant on the school and how they teach. The name means little anymore.

Quote:

One more thing:

Is Krav Maga the ONLY proven self-defense system in the world, as I am often told?





Proven? Not every school has proven their effectiveness. I think all arts started out 'proven' in some way or another. Today is a different story.

Quote:

Maybe I am just upset at the thought I having to go to a school where I don't want to be. Sorry about the vent.




I'd be upset too after being taken for a ride.

You have some options.

1. You know you are basically being railroaded to get promotions.
2. You know they conned you into a contract.
3. You know you don't want to be there.

Stick it out and don't give them anymore money than you absolutely have to. Forget about their seminar scams and your rank. Just take as much away from it as you can.
Then when you are done with them, be done with them for good. Get the word out on what they are all about. Do you have a link to the school's website?

Then when you are ready, look around for somewhere else to train. Be openminded and do a lot of research before stepping into anything else.

Good luck.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#366707 - 10/24/07 01:32 AM Re: Defending your wallet against Krav Maga. . . [Re: BrianS]
BrokenNose Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 12
Wow, I read the thread on canceling a contract and there are some really freaky things to do. Geez, i don't know if I have the guts to do all those things. They do make me wear Krav Maga clothes and I can't participate in class unless I wear a Krav Maga shirt. There's been a bunch of times where someone new is signing up when I have wanted to stop them and fill them in on everything they don't tell you about.

You know, they won't allow people to audit the class without participating in it. They make you leave because of some law enforcement rules, suggesting that what they teach can be used against law enforcement.

I want to post a link to their website, but I'm not sure what kind of trouble it could get me if someone from that school monitors or reads this forum. I'd like all of you to see the bio on the instructors and notice that none of them have any martial arts background, except for the founder. Most, if not all the instructors, are self-certified to some extent.

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