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#366097 - 11/16/07 06:54 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Ironfoot]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I checked out the 5 seisan bunkai videos. My initial impressions: the first 3 are fine if a little basic.

The fourth one, where the opponent's arm is leveraged on the shoulder? There's better ways. Personally I like to leverage the opponent's head with my lead arm while locking his arm against my chest. Horizontal rather than vertical. Works better when there's a significant height difference.

The fifth one requires poor reaction from the opponent to allow his lead arm to be manipulated in that rather slow circle.

The Didier Lupo videos (I just watched the first and last) are excellent. And yes, when I watch another style I try to find similarities to Isshinryu or new ideas I can incorporate. For example, the Nijushiho kata in the firts Didier video, a form which I'd never seen before, has quite a few themes found in our Chinto, Sanchin and Sunusu katas.



I agree the first 5 were basic.


NIJUSHIHO le kata , le bunkai , la réalité par Didier Lupo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7naDDrWeF0
I like the way he does the kata.

3.36

I like that application

Also stops any incoming headbutt's.

I think there is some good stuff on that kata.
Isnt the part right at the end meant to more of twist the arms for a cleaner throw?

Sunusu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVr97rTCy9w ?
I dont think I have seen that kata.

Jude


Edited by jude33 (11/16/07 06:59 PM)

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#366098 - 11/16/07 09:40 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: jude33]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Jude,

Sunsu (SunNuSu) Kata is unique to Isshinryu Karate. It is the creation of Isshinryu's founder Shimabuku Tatsuo.

It represents a combination of:
1. techniques from the other Isshinryu Kata
2. Techniques from Kyan Patsai Kata
2.*. Techniques from Patsai documented by Motobu Chokoi in his books.
3. Techniques from Kyan Gojushiho Kata
4. Unique additional techiniques of Shimabuku Tatsuo's own focus.

I is one of the few unique Okinawan creations in the 20th century that was not just a variation of other kata, nor a beginners kata.

Shimabuku Tatsuo left his mark on almost every aspect of the Isshinryu system, from stance choice, choice of punching technique, choice of blocking, etc. All of which are found in other Okinawan traditions but not necessarily in the same combination.

Another kata with a siginificent addition is Isshinryu's Wansu Kata, which is a variation of Kyan's Wansu Kata, but also a significent addition of other techniques.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#366099 - 11/16/07 09:57 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Victor Smith]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
_________________________
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#366100 - 11/19/07 01:52 AM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Victor Smith]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Jude,

Sunsu (SunNuSu) Kata is unique to Isshinryu Karate. It is the creation of Isshinryu's founder Shimabuku Tatsuo.





Thanks Victor.

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#366101 - 11/19/07 01:54 AM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: oldman]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

[Shimabukus SunNuSu.




Thanks Oldman

Any new excellent drawings?

Jude

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#366102 - 11/21/07 08:25 AM Re: Bunkai Methods.................... [Re: medulanet]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I'll concede there is not a lot of hip torque in the kata, but he's generating power on explosive forward steps. Over exaggerated hip torque can also be seen as winding up, especially when moving forward. You can use it more effectively when turning.

I don't think his kata is robotic; the important thing is there is good timing between his movements, blocks and strikes. He then pauses for dramatic effect; hey, a little showmanship is required, especially if you're in competition. I figured that coming from a hard style base, there was enough flow. Power did not fluctuate at any point, and his stances were solid.
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#366103 - 11/21/07 12:34 PM Re: Bunkai Methods.................... [Re: Ironfoot]
truth Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 25
Hey Ironfoot it's hard to express your veiws to people who spend more time on the internet then on the floor.No disrespect to others. If they were the recipients of the techniques of the kata then we would know if their was enough power behind them.I have to be careful because this endeavor may not end well for I according to the keyboard.Have a great thanksgiving Iron and fellow members.

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#366104 - 11/21/07 01:23 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Victor Smith]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Hey Jude! Note that in Victor's post he gives 2 names for the same kata: Sunsu (SunNuSu). Shows how much dispute there can be within a fairly young style. One translation is "Strong Man", while the other (I'm going by what I've been told here - I don't speak Japanese) is "Son of the Old Man". It is a fine kata; it appears Shimabuku Sensei incorporated any of our basic techniques not found in any of the other kata. I was practicing its last half the other night in slow motion as was struck with its flowing beauty. Come up to Michigan one day and I'll teach it to you.
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#366105 - 11/22/07 06:19 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Ironfoot]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Hey Jude! Note that in Victor's post he gives 2 names for the same kata: Sunsu (SunNuSu). Shows how much dispute there can be within a fairly young style. One translation is "Strong Man", while the other (I'm going by what I've been told here - I don't speak Japanese) is "Son of the Old Man". It is a fine kata; it appears Shimabuku Sensei incorporated any of our basic techniques not found in any of the other kata. I was practicing its last half the other night in slow motion as was struck with its flowing beauty. Come up to Michigan one day and I'll teach it to you.




Would like to but I am in the UK.

What techniques/ bunkia are in there?

Jude

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#366106 - 11/22/07 10:11 PM Re: Bunkai Methods....................? [Re: Ironfoot]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Ironfoot,

My choice of spelling for Sunsu SunNuSU isn't one of dispute, it's just there really is no right way to spell Okinawan/Japanese terms into English. The art of translation/ spelling rendering leaves a lot open for individual interpretation.

When I choose to use variant spellings I'm just trying to be inclusive. So I may spell it Sesan or Seisan, Seiunchin or Seiyunchin, Nihanchi, or Naifanchi or Nifanchi or Naifuanchi as I can readlily find all of them on my shelves.

Sunsu, SunNuSu is the same kata, just depends on which instructor/friend I'm talking to.

In fact it's much more complicated in the Japanese Kanjin, I think Joe Swift documented there is no standardized kanjin either, and found 4 entirely different kanjin for Seiunchin (and all spelling variants) used in different Okinawna dojo.

Also when I was trained we didn't discuss the meanings for the term, it was just a name for the kata. I am most definately unqualified on the correct translation. It has never hurt my practice.

Of course the spelling variations are far less than the Isshinryu variations from dojo to dojo either.

I only really worry about what I practice and teach, not what others do, but I do try to be inclusive in my descriptives for communications sake.


Edited by Victor Smith (11/22/07 10:13 PM)
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