FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 43 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
charlie 2
futsaowingchun 2
Matakiant 1
William_Bent 1
simonajones111 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#365711 - 10/16/07 08:09 AM Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Firstly my upmost respects to all of you

I wish to ask a question mainly from an observation I noticed when I trained for 3 months at an Aikido Dojo and when viewing forms etc on Youtube etc.

With regards to hand and foot strikes, the UKE tends to purposely put him/her-self 'off balance'. As a KarateKa this is not what we would do within the 'perfomance' of the strike. Also I study/teach Ashihara Karate (Ashihara karate has a large influx of Aikido techniques including Throwing Katas using Tenkan and Irimi), aswell as studying wado Ryu (Jujitsu/karate blend). We are taught to be firm and 'planted' when we deliver any strikes either from a hand technique or a foot technique.

I know there is a reason, so I await your guidance

Osu

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#365712 - 10/16/07 11:00 AM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: Dobbersky]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Strikes by uke or nage?

Top
#365713 - 10/16/07 11:06 AM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: iaibear]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Sorry, Strikes by the Uke

Osu
_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#365714 - 10/16/07 11:07 AM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: iaibear]
Cory_Covert Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 30
Loc: LI New York
I think that he is reffering to uke. I was told it was to distract uke while performing the technique.

Top
#365715 - 10/16/07 11:52 AM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: Cory_Covert]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Are you talking about Atemi or the mock attacks by the uke?
Atemi is what makes Aikido real, you have to soften up a guy that doesn't fully committ, lets say a guy throwing a jab, strikes to move him in the direction that you want to break him are very realistic.

Aikido look beautiful in the dojo, but its ugly and dirty on the streets. You here alot that fool broke my arm or neck! Imagine a guy hopping around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to save his arm and he doesn't know how to fall properly/go with the move. And he's getting hit to position him to fall on his head!!! Ugly and real.

Outside the long and pretty uniforms ain't nothing pretty about Aikido, that sh%^ hurts!


Edited by Neko456 (10/16/07 11:59 AM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#365716 - 10/16/07 12:14 PM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: Neko456]
Dobbersky Offline
Peace Works!!!!
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 913
Loc: Manchester United Kingdom
Oh yes I totally agree that Aikido is an excellent and Dangerous art I've been on the receiving end of a Heaven and Earth throw (ouch!). I believe Kano O Sensei declared when he watched some Aikidoka that Aikido was Judo Perfected (or something like that).

Appologies I'm not too sure if I got the Uke and Nage Correct. I meant to ask about the attacker being what looks like off balance when they strike.

_________________________
A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

Ken

Top
#365717 - 10/16/07 02:39 PM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: Dobbersky]
A.J. Bryant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 98
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
If uke in a school aren't attacking with proper power, precision and skill, I think you'll find it's not the fault of the art, but rather with the school or sensei for not teaching proper attacks. Iíve experienced both good and bad skills in US Aikido dojo over the years. Many shihan have brought in high ranking teachers from other arts over the years to address just this issue.

To play Devilís advocate though, someone has to ask themselves what theyíre training for--defending against a professional fighter, or everyday self-defense...

From my experience, youíll find most Joe Blows out there are just not that well trained at fighting, and once the adrenaline kicks in and thereís anger involved or alcohol/drugs, you arenít likely to see well coordinated attacks. Aikido does a pretty good job of addressing these types of unarmed attacks.

Just my two cents.
_________________________
Andrew Bryant Rishinkan Dojo Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu Iaido Dentokan Aiki Jujutsu

Top
#365718 - 10/16/07 05:35 PM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: A.J. Bryant]
lukasa Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 2
To add to what AJ said well:

I've been training in aikido for about three years, and these off-balance attacks bug me. They really aren't necessary. You can do all aikido attacks in a solid balanced manner during training with any level partner, even in the faster multi-man attacks.

Ideally, the defender (nage) interacts with the attack in such a way as to take balance through counter attack, feint, rotation, and shifting position. As this happens, the attacker (uke) *sticks with the original attack* as much as possible (bend, duck, block, turn, whatever) and stays oriented on nage. If the technique is done properly, the attacker ends up with two choices: break off the attack and start over, or lose some balance. Uke does not have the choice to keep his/her balance in the proper technique because to do so would result in injury. The typical injuries from taking this third choice are dislocations, not bruises.

I think the danger of this third choice makes a lot of ukes take the fall, as it were, partly to protect themselves and partly to make it easier to nage to learn the technique. After nearly getting your nose broken a few times or your shoulder torqued to hell because you thought it would be realistic to give a little resistance, you're really motivated to just go with the flow of the technique.

Top
#365719 - 10/16/07 07:19 PM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: lukasa]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Firstly, uke is supposed to help tori learn how to apply aiki. Therefore, depending on tori's ability, uke needs to moderate the speed and intensity of their attack.

A clean, committed attack helps tori learn. The attack doesn't have to be strong, or fast, but it has to be committed. IOW, uke's intention must always be to hit tori - even if they "pull" the strike at the last moment - and it has to be commensurate with tori's ability to handle the attack.

Aikido waza is merely a learning framework in which uke is essentially a "dummy" for tori to learn how to apply aiki. It is not meant to be RBSD or specific technical responses to specified attacks. BUT, uke's attack should closely approximate what an attacker might do.

In koryu styles, the uke is the senior/teacher. In aikido, the roles are reversed. But that's not to say that uke can't be the "teacher" - the role distinction is arbitrary. So, as uke, and depending on tori's skill level, uke may allow themselves to be off-balanced in order for tori to more easily grasp the concepts of suki, ma-ai, sen, tsukuri, kuzushi, and kake.

If uke plants their weight and makes themselves immovable, nobody learns anything. In this case, a less skilled tori's only recourse may be to use atemi as a means to initiate movement on uke's part in order to lead into other movements - which detracts from the primary learning objective - i.e. how to apply aiki.

Obviously, as tori's skill level and ability increases, uke should increase the speed and level of intensity accordingly. This is as much a fault of the teacher as it is the student. Most beginners (particularly females) are loathed to strike at someone, let alone actually striking someone. This is something each individual needs to overcome themselves - and it is hardly the entire fault of the teacher.

However, the point is about control, and more specifically self-control. Everyone is there to help each other learn. Therefore, uke needs to be "good", for tori to become better. And it should ALWAYS be commensurate with tori's ability.

Top
#365720 - 10/16/07 08:24 PM Re: Strikes In Aikido - how realistic are they [Re: eyrie]
evad74 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Qld, Australia
Quote:

If uke plants their weight and makes themselves immovable, nobody learns anything. In this case, a less skilled tori's only recourse may be to use atemi as a means to initiate movement on uke's part in order to lead into other movements - which detracts from the primary learning objective - i.e. how to apply aiki.




Wouldn't it teach them to apply aiki to a fully resistant opponent ?

Even with beginners, you could show them the mechanics involved and help get them used to it by being compliant - but also show them from the start the other end of the spectrum to demonstrate what thier eventually aiming for.

Top
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... 9 10 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga