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#365197 - 10/19/07 04:23 PM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: cxt]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Cxt:

It is an unanswered question for me as well. But using that battery and jumper cable concept, I can certainly see how something as simple as rubber shoes (between the cable's clamp and the battery contact) would badly interfere, no?

Not signifigantly familiar with ~Asian energetic~ ideas specifically... seeking to understand.

<<having a pin in your leg/shoulder etc can prevent it from working.

Strictly from the chi/ki framework, it would be very unpleasant if that indeed was/is the case.

Jeff

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#365198 - 10/19/07 04:54 PM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Butterflypalm:

I was hoping you might chime in more... thank you!
As I've said many times before I lack... a systemic template, a systemic explaination of/for chi by which to gather these answers.

<<part of my training is to gather chi from the ground through the "yung chuan" point (bubbling spring/well point) wearing rubber soled shoes certainly reduce significantly the required sensation;

Difficult to phrase this well... sensations are reduced between the parts of the foot contacting with the ground? These sensations are reduced by footwear? Or do you mean something else?

<<In-doors will of course be bare-footed provided the floor is not too cold.

Indoors SHOULD be barefoot?! . Wondered if there might be a difference culturally between Chinese and Japanese (in the generic) that way. (Footwear genericly Chinese, barefoot generic Japanese)

Temprature too cold, a pragmatic issue, yes? Or is there something specific to cold that needs avoided requiring footwear?

<<called 'bubbling spring/well' because you do feel as if some liquid is bubbling there, a very nice, soothing sensation, as if some soft-fingers are giving you a foot-massage

Is this a more common sensation, typical/capable of lower level practice/practitioners?

<<I do not have large pieces of metal in there like Bossman

My "bionic parts" are small as well, but they are there, and do have issues. Structurally, far better than I was clearly, but energetically

Hoping others can chime in too.

Jeff

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#365199 - 10/20/07 02:30 AM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Ronin1966]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

I lack... a systemic template, a systemic explaination of/for chi by which to gather these answers




As I've said many times before, this is one area of MA which by just asking for, getting answers and talking, intellectualising about theories and explanations will never satisfy anyone who has not done it the other way round -- meaning to do the practical part first, then the theory takes care of itself; i.e. understanding comes from the practice itself. I can fully understand your quest for answers and explanations. All of us started off that way, but after spending years, no decades, on the practical side, I found that the questions I once had answered themselves. What Bossman and myself had put out so far in this thread is only a part, a very small part of what is really a very large subject. Just look at the large amount of published literature from english, european, chinese and japanese sources, plus what is being taught all over the world will tell you what is really involved. I (and I respectfully include Bossman) certainly wouldn't dare claim exlusive and exhaustive knowledge, though whatever I say comes from my own training and experience and if I am wrong in any way, it is because of incomplete knowledge or training.

Having said that I will try to answer some of your queries, but bear in mind that there is always someone somewhere who knows more or have trained longer and can immediately see the structural level(wherever it happens to be) I am presently at, just as I can see your level you are at from the questions you ask.

Quote:

... sensations are reduced between the parts of the foot contacting with the ground? These sensations are reduced by footwear? Or do you mean something else?




You will notice a difference in my and Bossman's answer on this. I can see why Bossman said what he did and can see that we are talking about two ways of doing things. One way is to directly gather chi from the ground exclusively through the 'yung chuan' point; this is one way of doing it. And to do it this way I find that having a rubberised soled shoes reduces, not eliminate altogether, the sensation of the chi gathering. As Bossman said, the chi can and does come through from other parts of the foot and so you can by-pass the soles of the shoe and gather chi up from the sides of the foot. But to do the second way will not directly stimulate the 'yung chuan' point as much and the by-passing of this point 'generalise' the practice too much as the stimulation of the 'yung chuan' is the main idea for this particular practice. But for other practices where a 'general' gathering of chi from the ground into other parts of the foot is part of the overall training of other areas of the body, then any soled shoes of any kind is alright.

Quote:

In-doors will of course be bare-footed provided the floor is not too cold




You want maximum contact of the foot with the ground and so being bare-footed is the closest you can be. As for the cold floor, it is TCM's believe that coldness, which in TCM's term also equates harmful dampness, is not good for you as it can promote chronic physiological problems like rheumatism as you are directly gathering it into your body. These are just theories and I follow them more for caution as you can never know when ancient wisdom may be right.

Quote:

Wondered if there might be a difference culturally between Chinese and Japanese (in the generic) that way. (Footwear genericly Chinese, barefoot generic Japanese)




There were some differences in the cultural habitats of old China and Japan; the former normally have stone, tile pavings for floors, while the latter had wood or matted straw. So the differences in ambient/latent temperatures of these floor pavings/coverings dictated the wearing or otherwise of footwear.

Quote:

called 'bubbling spring/well' because you do feel as if some liquid is bubbling there, a very nice, soothing sensation, as if some soft-fingers are giving you a foot-massage

Is this a more common sensation, typical/capable of lower level practice/practitioners?




With correct daily training, this can be accomplished in say one-two years. There are as many methods as there are masters and so it can vary a lot, being dependance on so many human, physiological factors, and in any case this is not an end in itself, but part of an overall regime of training, whether for health or MA, as Bossman will surely know, if he cares to share some of his experiences?

Quote:

...and do have issues. Structurally, far better than I was clearly, but energetically




What issues do you have? I am sure Bossman can say something as for the moment he has the largest piece of titanium implant that I know of. His legs might undergo some nucleaic reaction
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#365200 - 10/20/07 11:00 AM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Not sure about the bionic parts, however, I think that the most important thing is to have comfortable shoes that are functional. If you are spending time thinking about how uncomfortable your feet are then it is detracting from your training.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#365201 - 10/20/07 06:15 PM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Bossman]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

The lower halves of my legs were literally amputated and the ends of the shin and thigh bones sawn off and put back together with replacement knees made of titanium with polythene cartilage, if anything I can feel the flow of energy better now that the bones are not as inflamed as they were before.




that sounds a nasssty procedure to go through.

Glad to hear you are well on the recovery phase now Steve.

How is your other half doing these days? Hope she is better now too.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#365202 - 10/21/07 04:09 PM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Reiki]
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hey Reiki!

It was nasty, but getting better all the time Ann is still improving, so life is good! Still planning to visit Middle Earth when I can move around easier.

BP... I activate the yongquan point very powerfully for movement by pressing my bodyweight 45 deg backwards through the centre rear of the arch of the foot and allow it to 'gather' in standing by standing 'on the top of the arch' and find that the right kind of shoes make no difference at all.

My knees were a huge operation and despite the pain and neurological difficulties the chi flow was if anything stronger than before. I still have to think and struggle to walk but managed to teach 8 hours of qigong in Bournemouth this w/e demonstrating the exercises and qi flow without a problem. To me the only limiting factors seem to be intention and stiffness.

Since the operation I have certainly been on a very powerful learning curve.
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

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#365203 - 10/22/07 12:49 AM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Bossman]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Thanks for your insight and will try if it works on me as dirt is hell to get rid of from cloth-soled shoes, which for whatever reasons the soles are white!
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#365204 - 10/24/07 04:44 AM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Bossman]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Bossman,

Bournemouth? Was that the Master's seminar? I take it you know Brendan?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#365205 - 10/24/07 07:22 AM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: trevek]
Bossman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 1785
Loc: Chatham Kent UK
Hi Trevek

No it was for Lorraine Box's group (Phoenix) and was the last in a series of 4 qigong and healing courses.

Brendan who?
_________________________
supporting standards in the martial arts www.shikon.com www.masa.org.uk

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#365206 - 10/24/07 04:33 PM Re: Chi:Shoes & Metal parts [Re: Bossman]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Brendan Burnett, teaches Chen in Bournemouth
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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