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#363873 - 10/26/07 09:08 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Victor Smith]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Then again karate isn't for fighting, ever. I accept if you're fighting you're in the wrong frame of mind.




It sure ain't for tiddly winks!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#363874 - 10/29/07 11:32 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: BrianS]
Unyu Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Where I'm At
Quote:

Quote:

Then again karate isn't for fighting, ever. I accept if you're fighting you're in the wrong frame of mind.




It sure ain't for tiddly winks!!




You mean your karate is not for fighting. Sorry, but Kanryo Higashionna, Sokon Matsumura, Hohan Soken, Choshin Chibana, Chotoku Kyan, Choki Motobu, Chojun Miyagi, Kanei Uechi, Tatsuo Shimabuku, Gogen Yamaguchi, Mas Oyama, ad nauseum, would totally disagree with you. Self preservation includes fighting in this instance.

Karate is more than fighting, but Budo that is not about the art of war, is not true and original intent. It's schoolboy karate.

That is what you do right? Day care karate? Whatever super sensei. That might have been the most arse showing comment I've ever seen on a forum. Let me "troll" on outta here now...
_________________________
Verily and mayhaps, the morrow beckons, like watchtower beacons, and war does to weapons...

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#363875 - 10/30/07 02:18 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Unyu]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
I think you read too little in the comment. The distinction I would make is defending ego vs defending your life.

you 'take it outside' and get into a fight, one on one, over an argument that started about who took who's barstool... to me, 'fight' implies 'battle of egos'. maybe thats how Victor meant it, numbnuts.

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#363876 - 10/30/07 02:48 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Ed_Morris]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
I think Victor does have some explaining to do; Unyu may have over-reacted, but then that was too short and too categorical a statement not to have elicited such a response. Especially with that "ever" at the end.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#363877 - 10/30/07 05:12 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Unyu]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Bryan,

No, karate is not for fighting, if it is used there should be no fight just completion.

The fighting mindset is you do this and I'll do that until I win. Unfortunately sparring has made many think this is how karate should be used.

Consider Hohen Soken's comments that Kusanku used to be practiced with the top knot pins (daggers) in each hand.

Training the body to take a shot to fight is nonsense when they may be trying to stick something small into you, and that is always the proper perspective if you need to use the art. End it not fight.

I consider anyone who trains to fight missing the entire point, and there are just as many classical quotes about not fighting from the seniors too. Wonder why?

Karate is for immediately ending, from my perspective.

Of course perhaps your karate is for fighting, if so cool, to each their own.


Edited by Victor Smith (10/30/07 05:16 AM)
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#363878 - 10/30/07 05:32 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Victor Smith]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Oh, I see. Karate is for 'ending the fight' and not 'fighting the fight'?

I am not double-quessing Unyu, but then he may say that while you are 'ending' the fight, some 'fighting' has to be done first?

Perhaps you are thinking about a variation of the 'one-punch-one-kill' to 'first-punch-first-kill'?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#363879 - 10/30/07 08:41 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
I believe it is much more than a case for semantics about what is happening.

Let me give you an example, one of Isshiryu's kata techniques looks like one technique (which I suspect few really nail each other with) but from a different direction of entry it is a neck breaking technique and is nothing but 100% use of the technique from kata.

I try really hard to work on everything we have and just use of that one application, IMO, is not fighting, its ending the situation, which btw is also the complete way to enter an attack by using the technique.

Of course I'm not looking to break necks, but if the situation is appropriate the technique is not fighting in my book, its ending the situation.

I see fighting as a mindset how to use karate's technique, see value in it, but also see much more.

In that light I take all the elder seniors admonisnments that karate isn't to be used for fighting as a serious contention.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#363880 - 11/01/07 03:06 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: ButterflyPalm]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Oh, I see. Karate is for 'ending the fight' and not 'fighting the fight'?

I am not double-quessing Unyu, but then he may say that while you are 'ending' the fight, some 'fighting' has to be done first?

Perhaps you are thinking about a variation of the 'one-punch-one-kill' to 'first-punch-first-kill'?




This seems to be taking a some what confusing direction.
Looking at the bunkia thread it seems the techniques in kata might/are geared to the defender aiming for/achieving the dominant position should they be attacked.
So karate is for aiming for that situation? as opposed to a just keep throwing techniques and hope they land brawl?

Is that what Victor is saying?

Other wise I am getting somewhat confused.
Jude

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#363881 - 11/01/07 05:13 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Unyu]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Hi Bryan,

im away from home hence not being online so much last week or so, re this comment -

'Jim did mention the use of a "fence", which some shinshii call "the wall", but he also seems to detail use of the block in 2-person sets from a chambered position'

I dont recall, certainly dont teach hikite position as a start point for blocking, its pointless and simply doesn't work.

The only real use I see for it is interception or grabbing to dead stop the person or pull them into something nasty, open them up for locks etc etc.

agree with the kamae position we use in seito, ie both hands in front, I teach open hands or loose fists.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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