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#363813 - 10/17/07 10:34 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Stormdragon]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Actually shin conditioning isn't too bad. The most effective way is simply shin kicking a heavy bag between 50 and 100 reps per day and you'll be there in a year or so. You can also kick the thighs of a training partner. I trained with an 8th Dan Kara Ho Kenpo dude who was Hawiian and trained with William Chow for several years assisting him prepare his "black belt candidate". They did this shin on shin conditioning which had to be the most stupid and injurious form of conditioning I have seen. All that is needed for shin conditioning is a heavy bag.

Oh, and he likened my forearm conditioning to that of Chow and replied that the only other place he experienced such conditioning was from Chow.
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#363814 - 10/18/07 07:29 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: medulanet]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
re conditioning we work 3 'drills' that specifically do that,

arm pounding
leg kicking
body punching

They of course teach much more than conditioning alone, I will try and sort some video out of how we work them for discussion.
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www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#363815 - 10/18/07 08:41 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: shoshinkan]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
Jim,

I read the article and now understand what you are describing, twisting the arm slightly to use both bones to contact attacking limbs. I can see why this might be more protective of the blocking arms if you see those movements as blocks but this is still basically the same as the Japanese systems, using force on force contact to stop a fast punch or kick. Like I said, it is doable in rehearsed kumite but IMO virtually impossible in free kumite/unrehersed attacks, especially against punches. I much prefer to see the same movements (whether using double or single bone) as strikes and if there is any intercept/grab/unbalance to be done using the prior open hand which usually goes to the hip, shown in the formal version of the blocks in Shotokan for example (perhaps you do not have this as part of your blocking movement, I don't know). If they are seen as strikes to joints or face or throat (i.e relatively soft parts), then the use of single bone position is fine.

B.

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#363816 - 10/18/07 08:54 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Barad]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
you would need to see the application from a relaxed fence (hands in front, relaxed) to see where im coming from Barad,

If you imagine jodan age uke, double bone blocking is about as difficult as shrugging your shoulders (well ok from your feet, through the hip shoulder and out the arm), a flinch type response.

Gedan uke is much the same except the hands start high, and simply drop.

The double bone and muscle are engage giving a stucturally very strong 'jam',

applied to the inside of a round un-trained attack it not only stops it, but also can cause significant pain.

We do have the intercept method as well of course as I described earlier.

The key to application for these blocks is that tactile contact is made with via fence before the delivery of the attack - agreed it doesn't work otherwise.
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#363817 - 10/18/07 03:57 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: shoshinkan]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Early on I notice that the moves were too bigger a motion to be just Blocks/stops. A block/stop doesn't require anymore then raising of an elbow or flick of the wrist. The trad blocks are more then just primary stopping incoming, they are strikes to vital areas along the meridans, holds for snapping a joint/breaking or setup to a maiming blow, they are also traps/holds for entry to sweep and throw among other things they are simple stops or deflections.

What has to relized is that Karate fighting is done at near punching/clinch range, not at present day open tourney sparring range. Though you can block out at that range its harder to land combos becauses you are at or just inside kicking range, one step back and you are out of range. The blocks are different out at that range.

Blocking as I was taught was a way of forcing your will upon the attacker. The greatest defense I was taught "Was no blocking (tai-sabaki simlar to bob and weaving with foot movement) defending but your full concentration is on attack".

Blocking the way some think of is done only when you have to. Or when learning basics.
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#363818 - 10/18/07 06:34 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Neko456]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
all these methods have their place, for sure.

what I really like about double bone, direct hard blocking is that it is there when things don't go so well, real life is like that.

ie you didn't move so fast/good, your adrenalin is running, your tense, had a few to drink? etc etc.

I agree it is a relativly simple method but in my experience an extremly functional/valid one,

of which other methods build on.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#363819 - 10/18/07 08:50 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Victor Smith]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

It is interesting how a beginning tool, naming a technique, can remain binding far beyond the original intent, to help a new student shape their technique.

It is an old adage that you keep your true name hidden so others can't control you. Well karate proves why, those intial naming conventions, useful beginner tools, spawn neverending discussion about the reality the name doesn't convey.



exactly. there are no 'blocks'.

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#363820 - 10/18/07 09:27 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

It is interesting how a beginning tool, naming a technique, can remain binding far beyond the original intent, to help a new student shape their technique.

It is an old adage that you keep your true name hidden so others can't control you. Well karate proves why, those intial naming conventions, useful beginner tools, spawn neverending discussion about the reality the name doesn't convey.



exactly. there are no 'blocks'.




I agree 100%. I have asked on here many times when this issue arrises. Why do you need to conform to a particular technique merely just to block? All you need to block is someone to feed the attack.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#363821 - 10/22/07 04:20 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: BrianS]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
I gave a quick rule of thumb. Not necessarily all-inclusive, then again for example, can't throws be considered a subset of either unbalancing OR grabbing?
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#363822 - 10/22/07 05:32 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Ed_Morris]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Quote:

Quote:

It is interesting how a beginning tool, naming a technique, can remain binding far beyond the original intent, to help a new student shape their technique.

It is an old adage that you keep your true name hidden so others can't control you. Well karate proves why, those intial naming conventions, useful beginner tools, spawn neverending discussion about the reality the name doesn't convey.



exactly. there are no 'blocks'.




I disagree, there are blocks in karate. The type that break. They break balance, hands, arms, shins, etc. as they block. I personally like fighting people who don't use any type of blocking techniques. They make it easy for me.
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Dulaney Dojo

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