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#363793 - 10/04/07 01:56 PM Traditional blocks
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Hi.
What do people think of the idea that blocks could be used or meant as a way to clear on arm so you can strike?
Rather than wait and block or grab a strike,which is unrealistic against a fully resisting person,to not wait and clear a way to strike or maybe enter.
Is this what people mean when they refer to blocks as realy being grabbing applications?

I also noticed that when I have pummeled in wrestling,the movement has resembled some blocks.Iv found it easier to get the motion.
Now,im not saying you could pummel just by knowing these blocks or anything like that.Best to just wrestle and pummel.Just found it an imteresting observation.
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#363794 - 10/04/07 05:32 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: matxtx]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Truthfully, you can use these blocks for whatever you can effectively apply them to.

As far as using blocks for grappling, yes, they can be good for that as well as blocking. Just as you can't pummel effectively by just knowing a blocking technique. You really can't do ANYTHING by simply knowing the technique, you must engage in the activity that it involves. You can't punch effectively by just knowing how to punch. There is much more involved like timing, distancing, power development, etc. For those who say you can't grapple effectively by just knowing kata I agree with them, however, you can't do much of anything related to fighting by just knowing a kata or a technique. The Karate Do is in the Do-ING.
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#363795 - 10/04/07 10:05 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: medulanet]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
It is interesting how a beginning tool, naming a technique, can remain binding far beyond the original intent, to help a new student shape their technique.

It is an old adage that you keep your true name hidden so others can't control you. Well karate proves why, those intial naming conventions, useful beginner tools, spawn neverending discussion about the reality the name doesn't convey.
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#363796 - 10/04/07 11:19 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: matxtx]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

What do people think of the idea that blocks could be used or meant as a way to clear on arm so you can strike?





Sooo many things a block can be, or is, based on how you are taught.

Quote:

Rather than wait and block or grab a strike,which is unrealistic against a fully resisting person,to not wait and clear a way to strike or maybe enter.
Is this what people mean when they refer to blocks as realy being grabbing applications?





It may be what some mean, others not so much.

Quote:

I also noticed that when I have pummeled in wrestling,the movement has resembled some blocks.Iv found it easier to get the motion.
Now,im not saying you could pummel just by knowing these blocks or anything like that.Best to just wrestle and pummel.Just found it an imteresting observation.




Then you noticed that all you need to block is for someone to feed the attack, that's all. No need to conform to a specific technique for that.

As medulanet has stated. You only need what you can DO with the technique you have learned.
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#363797 - 10/05/07 10:02 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: matxtx]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Open hand blocks for grabbing or unbalancing.
Closed hand blocks for unbalancing or striking nerve centers.
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#363798 - 10/05/07 10:46 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Ironfoot]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Open hand blocks for grabbing or unbalancing.
Closed hand blocks for unbalancing or striking nerve centers.




Always and that's it? What about locks, breaks/ dislocations and throws?
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#363799 - 10/16/07 09:27 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: matxtx]
Barad Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 427
...or maybe there are no blocks as such. For the movements so labelled, there are for example open hand receiving techniques followed by rising forearm strikes against throat/chin or trapped elbow (age uke) or followed by hammer fist (soto uke) against trapped arm or neck/brachial stun point. In Shotokan kata at least, there are 270 degree turns into gedan barai (down "block") that probably represent throws, having trapped the head from an ake uke rising "block" movement. None of this really reflects the common idea and immense difficulty in real life of a hard block intercepting a fast moving fist or kick.Lots of people tell me it is possible though, even though I have yet to see anyone use formal blocking in free sparring in 24 years.

Mawashi uke is probably the only real block we practice and even that really contains strikes as well.

B.

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#363800 - 10/16/07 11:32 AM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Barad]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
personally I see blocks as all these things, just to pick up on this -

'None of this really reflects the common idea and immense difficulty in real life of a hard block intercepting a fast moving fist or kick.Lots of people tell me it is possible though, even though I have yet to see anyone use formal blocking in free sparring in 24 years.'

I disagree, comparing free sparring against a commited, un-trained common method of assault (ie a swing) does not mean that hard blocks do not have a place in karate practice for self defence.

This is supported by the prominence of the double bone method of blocking used in many Okinawan systems (I teach this first before the other methods of using the motion).

The trick in application is to not be formal and work from a hands in front position (fence), often from a push or verbal abuse close up - this alters the recievers timing to allow it to happen, otherwise it is to slow for sure.

Sometimes a block really is just a block !
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#363801 - 10/16/07 01:10 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: shoshinkan]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
I thing what has confused me about different applications from one block or anything is that surely to make it work in a real violent situation you would have to train just one application for one that block all the time or else you wont pull it off in that instance.There is no time to make a choice even if its on an apparent 'instinct' level
For example if someone says a middle block is one thing and also another thing and also could be this,surely you have to choose which it is and stick with that?.So that minddle block will ALWAYS be that one realistic application whatever it may be rather than it being two or three?
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#363802 - 10/16/07 03:17 PM Re: Traditional blocks [Re: Barad]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Oh, beleive me, there are blocks in okinawan karate. But you don't chudan soto uke a straight punch. You parry it or use an elbow destruction. This is the okinawan fighting application.
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