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#363440 - 10/02/07 03:42 PM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: TeK9]
Totality Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hi Tek9,

Before, during and after is exactly what I am talking about.

Your last 2 points in time that you mention are actually the same thing. The "execution" has been made and you are in the fight.

So all you can do is keep intercepting the "Execution".

Your second point in time is intercepting 'with' an attack.

Your third point in time demonstrates intercepting with a simultaneous attack/defend known as "Lin Sil Di Dar". I understand you said, "dodging or evading the attack and THEN counter attacking", but that's not how I train JKD. There is no then, the attack is at the exact same time as the defend.

I am sure all kinds of people have come up with all kinds of stuff, but why complicate something so simple?? Doesn't sound like JKD principles to me!

Thanks,
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#363441 - 02/13/08 01:50 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: TeK9]
Kr00c Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 12
i dont even know wat it means by intercepting...please explain....Thanks!

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#363442 - 02/13/08 08:51 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: Kr00c]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

i dont even know wat it means by intercepting...please explain....Thanks!




Did you read the thread?
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#363443 - 02/20/08 01:18 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: TeK9]
wingchunartist Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 8
Let me start off by qualifying my comment. I have been training in wing chun kung fu for about 8 years now. My lineage is closely linked to Bruce Lee. My Sigung (teachers' teacher)is Hawkins Cheung who grew up with, trained with, exchanged fighting concepts wtih, and was a personal friend of Bruce Lee. My Sifu (teacher), Khalif Ali, trained under Hawkins Cheung for several years. I have been practicing wing chun under the guidance of my Sifu for the past 8 years and have had the opportunity to apply my skills through sport (in tournaments) and the streets through law enforcement and personal life and death situations on the murderous streets of Baltimore. With that being said, the concept of intercepting is a product of wing chun upon which Bruce Lee expounded on. In order to understand the way of intercepting, one must first understand the three stages of a fight:

Stage One- Before Contact, ie. The Face Off
Stage Two- Contact, ie. Actually Touching The Opponent
Stage Three- Exchange, ie. Trading Attacks/Blows

In the first stage, the only thing to intercept is the emotional intent of the opponent. This is done by training the eyes to watch the opponents eyes, knees, and elbows (NOT THE SHOULDERS) and keeping a safe distance so that any attack has to be telegraphed and therefore interceptable!

During the contact stage, contact is maintained so that one can feel the intentions of the opponent and therefore neutralize/intercept it either just before initiation or just before it lands (when the opponent is fully committed to the attack).

During the exchange stage one is able to use his positioning and/or own attack to limit the opponents attacking options (such as in trapping), and coupled with maintaing contact can accurately feel and predict the opponents next move and therefore cut it off/intercept it before it is initiated or just before it lands (when your opponent is most committed to the attack) and therefore the most vulnerable to your simultaneous defence and counter/interception!

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#363444 - 02/20/08 10:32 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: wingchunartist]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I believe that is the way most Wing-chun exponents think of intercepting and they are right. You obviously have had some success in doing it that way.

But I think from my experience that way of thinking is far too complicated noting eyes, elbows or knees. Eyes can be deceiving. Elbows or knees can be used to fient or fake.

What I've found is any movement that I deem aggressive at a certain range I attack or intercept so I stay at stage 1 Intercept his intent if he survives his 1st lunge/mistake or slighest movement, I feed him until I drown him with blows. So its not about me being fast enough to counter his attack, its taking the play away from him. I am flowing with his motion upon him recieving my blows and taking what he offers as a opening. Principle 1 KISS.

One of the reason JKD was devised is because WC had weakness and was too structure and stuck in its ways. Not to say that its not a good system but like most MA system it is not a catch all. Most would agree that WC makes up less then 30% of JKD training now days.

Your way works for you, its seems to be proven but determining what part of the body moves is in my opinion for sports and entertainment, you are trying to look good by setting up a good/appropiate counter. On the street I think if he thinking defense or survival then he's not thinking offense or conquering. Defeat the mind and the body follows.

Just my O. Good topic I'm staying tuned.


Edited by Neko456 (02/20/08 10:34 AM)
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#363445 - 03/02/08 08:34 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: Neko456]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
forgive a karate ka for posting in thy forum.

these principals sound exactly the same to the japanese concepts of timing. sen no sen, sen, and go no sen. to hit at the moment of thought, to hit as he advances, and to counter strike. the wording is going to cause some differences, but the concepts look like there universal.

in the eyes of the law, hitting at the moment of thought, like what neko talked about, is wrong, but you end up safe so its ok. to quote bruce, i try to let "it" hit on it's own. the naming of "interception" is from an observation of how fights happen and how people exchange blows, i feel like it smore use sometimes to just spar and say after, "yeah, that felt like go no sen" training the seperate timings can get imposible if your training partner can't provide the right kind of mental preasure that is erquired to apply the higher level timings. to quote jkogas, "variable intensity"
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#363446 - 03/02/08 10:47 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: student_of_life]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Gut instinct tells me that people often tend to over-complicate things. They analyze really simple concepts until they are blue in the face. Lets keep it simple.

What does interception mean to you? Basically it means doing something to you before you do it to me. Thats all, nothing more or less.

IMO, you can intercept people verbally (de-escalation) and physically (throwing a jab as my opponent just begins his offensive movement and thus interrupting his rhythm).

Does it really have to be any more complicated than that? If so, do we run the risk of analysis-paralysis?

Food for thought.


-John

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#363447 - 03/02/08 08:06 PM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: JKogas]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
your preaching to the choir brother.
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its not supposed to make sense

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#363448 - 03/03/08 08:01 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: Kr00c]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

i dont even know wat it means by intercepting...please explain....Thanks!




In this context just about what John said.

The meaning of intercepting anything is

To stop,
Deflect,
Interrupt the progress or intended course of ;


My thoughts about a practical scenario.

A Potential attacker has picked an argument with a person in a public place.

Intention? To see how the person re-acts then either attack the person or provoke the person to attack.

The potential attacker has his hands where they can be seen.

Any kind of verbal communication wont work from the person.

Its all on CCTV.

The person cant physically leave so considers a pre-emptive strike.
But if the person strikes the potential attacker first that makes him look like the aggressor and the person might or might not be prosecuted.

So the defender constantly places himself in the best possible position (s) that he can anticipate and intercept any strike/ attack that the potential attacker might use.

If the potential attacker strikes/attacks and it is blocked or parried or stopped (intercepted) then countered the defender should (if he has trained hard enough) win the situation.

If the potential attackers intention was to make the defender strike therefore get prosecuted , then the defender has also intercepted the potential attackers intention.

Jude



Edited by jude33 (03/03/08 08:52 AM)

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#363449 - 03/03/08 11:42 AM Re: "Intercepting" [Re: student_of_life]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
SofL I like how you explained that. Sen no sen and go no sen even Smore. I'm glad its in the text/cook books. I agree that it doesn't look lawful but if you are saying all along, "I don't want to fight, hey stop man don't move, I don't want to hit you!!" While you are sen no sening and hitting him Smore, it looks better to viewing public.

They will all say well the guy didn't want to fight he was telling the guy to stop as the other guy fell all the way to the ground, even kicked him to make sure he was alive once he fell. I like that sen no sen or go no sen.

Though I agree with Wing Chun guy detailed response but I use Jkogas/JKD idea of simplify or sen no... hit him as he thinks about hitting me. Now I won't advance on him but once in range, Sen no... man better safe then sorry.

I know it takes some of the required skill level away bc it don't let him get off good. U don't have to feel or be fast enough to block,trap & counter but darn it works and surprises them pretty good. Let him try to be faster then me. I'll practice that other stuff on the boards because boards don't ...

I intercept his thought, if I'm wrong I apologize didn't mean to deck you but you were too close to be sure, so Sin no sin, man.


Edited by Neko456 (03/03/08 12:00 PM)

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