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#363386 - 10/01/07 09:46 AM Challenge the forum wisdom
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
There are a lot of ideas that get floated on our little piece of the net here. Some good, some bad. Some seem to get a life of their own, and become automatic answers to certain questions. Perhaps you agree. Perhaps you disagree, but have been unwilling to say so. Here is your chance to offer a reasoned opinion counter to that of the "entrenched" forum wisdom on a given subject.

I'll go first.

"You can't learn from books/videos/internet/etc."

Yes, you can - AS LONG AS you have a partner to actually practice and refine said technique on. Reading without practice will get you nowhere. And sometimes even with the partner, you will not be able to get things to work, because the medium you are attempting to learn from cannot impart the necessary detail to make it functional.

But sometimes, all you need is just the idea to get started with the practice. My entire knowledge of Chi Sao came about from reading an article in some MA magazine years ago. It interested me enough to cajole my training partners into trying it, and LO AND BEHOLD - with practice, it worked!

It can be a valuable resource if no other means of instruction is available. But again, you have to actually WORK and PRACTICE the stuff to make it functional.

There you go.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#363387 - 10/01/07 10:05 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: MattJ]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Matt, I will second that notion. You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience, but it applies to anyone so long as you put in the practice time.


-John

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#363388 - 10/01/07 10:06 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: MattJ]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Matt:

Ideas given in books, magazines are very much like seeds. Once "planted", (regardless of the subject) they likely grow, but only if nurtured, attended to, mulled over.

I cannot learn thousands of things, but I can read of them, and appreciate their articulation, how a subject is explained, presented. If done well enough, our curiousity, our interests piqued we eventually explore them...

The expertise it takes to write a good book, communicate clearly, intelligently in writing is a good challenge. I was never a seeker of haphazard disconnected techniques, techniques without a basic context ie "succatash technique" chaos. But it works for some...

Like your sentiment, read THEN practice until functional.
Jeff

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#363389 - 10/01/07 10:39 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: MattJ]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
this is connected:
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15964477


an intrenched forum answer that only serves to annoy is: "you just have to feel it".

yes. thats absolutely true. but if left at that answer, then why even participate in a forum? whats the point of 'conversation' if the answer will always come down to a condecending: "find an instructor. you just have to feel it."

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#363390 - 10/01/07 10:42 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: Ronin1966]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
"High kicks don't work."

Yes, they do. They simply have to be set up properly. How many MMA matches have been decided by the unexpected kick to the head/face? Quite a few. Many MMA guys rely on that as a big finishing move when they have the guy on the ropes so to speak. Using good hand combinations, they close and out of nowhere, pow, head kick, good night Gracie (not actually one of the Gracie brothers but you get the idea).

Scottie
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"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#363391 - 10/01/07 10:43 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: JKogas]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
Quote:

... You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience...
-John




IMHO, that's the key. You have to have a frame of reference - to know basic mechanics.
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#363392 - 10/01/07 10:43 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: JKogas]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Quote:

Matt, I will second that notion. You can learn from books as well as video. This is particularly true if you've already been training and have some experience, but it applies to anyone so long as you put in the practice time.


-John




I will take this a step further Matt but taking something from John's post. I agree that you can learn from books and magazine but I would put some stipulations on that. If you have training and experience then your chances of success will increase because you already have some basic understanding. Working with another partner is a "must" so that you can both critique each other plus work together on figuring out things. However I don't believe that a person with no experience, working by themselves can truly comprehend and understand things enough to learn the basics. Bad habits would be formed that could impede actually training and also could lead to injuries. Plus many aspects are required by working with others to understand timing, distance, etc. ... and how do you learn to clinch, grapple, joint manipulation, etc. without a partner?
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#363393 - 10/01/07 11:01 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: Ed_Morris]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

yes. thats absolutely true. but if left at that answer, then why even participate in a forum? whats the point of 'conversation' if the answer will always come down to a condecending: "find an instructor. you just have to feel it."




Agreed, Ed. That answer by itself is pointless on a forum. Surely there is some level of technical articulation to support what is actually going on (in mechanical terms), huh?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#363394 - 10/01/07 11:09 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: Dereck]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
for me, a training video just illustrates possibilities...things to try...directions for pursuit. etc. It does not provide specific instruction since it is not interactive....for me anyway. In other words, if you watch and follow along with the entire Higaonna training series - it's a stretch to say you train Goju and/or claim your instructor is M. Higaonna.


and of course video material in documentary form can be comparitively interesting and educational. That type of materieal is not meant as instruction, just as a moving document.

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#363395 - 10/01/07 11:09 AM Re: Challenge the forum wisdom [Re: MattJ]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think if you already have a well established base and a workout partner or group you can learn from seminars, books and videos.

If you have a base already established. imho.


Edited by Neko456 (10/01/07 11:10 AM)
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