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#363335 - 11/27/07 02:49 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
That makes sense, my idea was admittedly incomplete. I didn't even THINK about the mindset thing being aggressive vs. defensive as with the jacket.
I guess just train that tactic aggressively like everything else.
It seems like traditional MA like Aikido seem to train against nothing but single, or maybe double, and fairly slpw knife attacks. How do the same techniques used agaisnt those transfer to the street where attacks are faster, shorter, more violent and repeated? Aren't most of the traditional tactics not designed for that stuff?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#363336 - 11/27/07 06:26 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: Stormdragon]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Back when Toyoda was alive, we used live blades during randori, and while the attacks were somewhat muted in intensity, it was still very telling about whether or not you could depend on your gokyo and irimi techniques to defend yourself against knife attacks. That being said, it wasn't a beginner's exercise ... it was for people with experience in both Aikido and randori, because you don't want to throw your ukes onto their knives or get cut in the process of doing your technique... so the operative word is "CAREFULLY" done randori...

It absolutely raises the level of training to "nearly real", and makes your insurance people go crazy. We had a few people get nicked up during training, but nothing serious, but there's always the possibility of an accident... so it isn't for the faint of heart or the newbies to be trying. They make wooden and rubber knives to be used for that, but believe me... the game changes when the blade is "live"...

Technique, movement, and mental coordination with your opponents has to be perfect. Otherwise... it gets bloody.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#363337 - 11/27/07 08:00 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: wristtwister]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
For the dan grades in Kempo we're required to be able to do all the knife stuff with a live blade. Unfortunately when one of the guys was taking is 2nd Dan he didn't quite get out the way of blade and know has what he calls his "worm" which is a scar that goes across his stomach. The group who we use for the dan grades banned us from using live blades after that...so my Dad makes the guys do it with live blades in the dojo instead. A real blade does change the game completely!
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#363338 - 11/27/07 08:00 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: wristtwister]
Blackrainbow Offline
Dragon

Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 220
Loc: Brandon Fl.USA


The mindset has to be "kill him... and do it now... " not, "how am I going to defend myself?" Chances are you're going to get cut or killed... so you have to change the equation.


This is the first practical thing that you learn in military basic training. Your most powerful weapon is between your ears. The minute you resign yourself to death you will surely die. People with no training at all survive these situations purely because they just refuse to surrender. After four major surgeries and at age 56 I am still in pretty good shape. But I am also no fool. Hechler and Koch---- don't leave home without it. Oh, and drill, drill, drill.
_________________________
You cannot defend against that which you do not understand

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#363339 - 11/30/07 11:51 PM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: Blackrainbow]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
One of the biggest weaknesses in martial arts training is the propensity to only train "self defense" scenarios, when if you're actually faced with one of them, the best solution is to attack. I laugh out loud when people tell me that "Aikido is a passive art"... cuz I'll knock your arse into the next dimension when I'm playing.... I want it to be dangerous to attack me... not "dangerous if you're attacking"...in the training sense of the words.

Let me put it in perspective...
If we're training, I'm going to be very careful to train you well. I will make it as real as possible, while still not sending you to the emergency room unnecessarily. You might get hurt some... bangs, bruises... sprains or contusions where you get hit... but still, all under control and done without malice.

If I'm using what I know in self defense...
First of all, I don't care if I hurt you... a lot and very badly. I don't care if you end up blind, crippled, or dead. If I'm defending myself or someone else, and you have a weapon, hopefully, I'll be armed, and make it simple... if not, I will find whatever I can to use and deliver the most paralyzing, injuring, and crippling damage to you that I can work out in the course of our fight. I won't care what you look like when we're through, or how your life is affected... I will be defending my life, or someone else's... and what happens to you doesn't matter. You're the threat.

I won't care what your lawyer thinks... or what your family thinks... or how well liked you were, or what a big man you were in the community... the immediate problem is that you're a threat, and in dealing with you, you're throwing out all that miscellaneous information and making the points moot. I WILL be trying my dead-level best to have you taking a dirt-nap when we're done.

Mindset... we don't need no stinkin' mindset...

Rambo is alive and well...

We'll have lemonade... after....

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#363340 - 12/01/07 01:20 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: wristtwister]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I think that about says it all. I think scenario training and training the right mindset, working tecniques all the time (the specifics I guess you could call it), etc., but the main concern is an effective attack that is made quickly, without hesitation. CONTROLLED AGGRESSION. Just do it and do it NOW. And then get the hell out of there. All the other factors are based around that. Do I about have it?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#363341 - 12/01/07 07:34 AM Re: (if) I did it - Confession from the killer [Re: Stormdragon]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
That's about it, except for the warning that you don't use compassion once your trigger is pulled... leave it all on the table, and don't stop until your attacker does... meaning that he isn't moving.

People train "excape" scenarios all the time, but consider the circumstance of this one... a pro football running back who's enraged and wants you dead... you aren't going to outrun him, he's going to be in better shape (most likely), and he has a weapon. Mercy will get you killed.

Break something... gouge out an eye... hit anything that gets close enough... and don't stop until he's either knocked out or dead. In this scenario, escape is not an option... he will run you down, he's armed, and he has the means and desire to kill you.

Oh yeah... and you have about two-tenths of a second to make that decision... before he decides to come after you with the knife... Other than that, take your time...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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