FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 23 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
simonajones111 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
Zombie Zero 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#363049 - 09/27/07 12:09 PM Reputable PP Schools?
diseredato Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 30
Hello all,
I would like to learn pressure points in order to complement my MA training. However I'm having a hard time finding a good school. So, if someone can list some well known and respected PP teaching organizations, that would be of great help.

Thank you.

Top
#363050 - 09/27/07 02:10 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: diseredato]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
test post

Top
#363051 - 09/27/07 02:10 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: diseredato]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
personally I would look for a good traditional martial arts school that doesn't lead tuition with 'PP' emphasis,

as IMO this sort of stuff should come later on in training and shouldn't be relied on.

you should also save significant /$ this way..........

any of the okinawan karate systems, most of the chinese systems certainly have significant PP work somewhere in the training anyhow.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#363052 - 09/27/07 02:49 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: shoshinkan]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Pressure points is not a style but a compliment to a style you already have. In my school, just for example, we do a local Kenpo style called American-Te. Students then pay #30 a year plus #30 a month for Kyusho (pressure points). For this money, they get a 2 hour class on Sunday, plus an additional 1/2 hour tacked on at the end of the regular adult classes. Also, for the advanced people, we have a 2 hour class once a month with Evan Pantazi. One does NOT have to be an American-Te student to take the Kyusho classes. None of our outside students come for the little 1/2 hour session at the end of the adult classes, but we have several that come in for the 2 hour classes.

Jim Hulse http://www.uechiryu-karate.co.uk/
Ian Bissix http://www.uechiryu-karate.co.uk/

Of these I know Jim Hulse and highly recommend him.

THese are the Kyusho International Instructors in UK.

doushikai@btclick.com
http://www.zendoryu.com/www/front/index.php
http://www.urbancombat.org.uk/
http://www.krusader.co.uk/
leon.jay@ntlworld.com
http://www.t-k-d.co.uk/

These are DKI (Dillman Karate International) Instructors in UK. Of these, the only one I've met is Leon Jay (Small Circle Jujitsu) He is phenomenal.

After that, you can check Russell Stutley, who is living in Norway but he is British and teaches in UK and has instructors there. I'd also check with Rick Clark. There are many others. Try to find one who teaches a style close to your own. If none of these leads are good, ask me again and I'll give you some more.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#363053 - 09/27/07 02:55 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: underdog]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Sorry I was giving UK instructors but I have no clue where you live. I checked your profile and that doesn't say either. Go to Kyusho.com and look for instructors in the link and see what you find. That is Evan Pantazi's organization. If you don't find something there that meets your need Diseredato, then post again.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#363054 - 02/08/08 11:34 AM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: diseredato]
sigung Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada
Pressure point training is usually offered as an integral part of the system of any balanced art. Wu Shen Pai Chu'an Fa, the art I teach includes instruction in these points and even certification in the various aspects of Traditional Chinese Medicine. This training is, of course, for highly committed students and usually even pressure points are offered to more advanced students.
That said, try to find a school where the head instructor teaches an art where pressure points are part of the system and not merely an add on. It is possible that instructors who have such add on training are very reputable, but usually when it is considered an integral part of the training, the teacher has probably been well instructed in its principles. There are many systems that teach these arts besides Wu Shen Pai. Most Chinese Kung Fu systems offer this training. Korean arts such as Hwa Rang Do, Kuk Sool Won, Jung Shin Do offer this training as well.

Top
#363055 - 02/09/08 09:08 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: sigung]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
The original questioneer is long gone sigung, but I'm interested in your answer anyway.

I see you mention Hwa Rang. What about Tai Kwon Do? Is PP training an integral part of this art at the advanced level? I ask because I started with TKD but never got to black belt before I left and switched styles. However, there were enough clues in the color ranks to suggest that it would have been coming. This is from looking back, of course, because I've had some PP training since from another school and when I recall my good old TKD days, I suspect that it would have eventually been there as well.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#363056 - 02/11/08 08:03 PM Re: Reputable PP Schools? [Re: underdog]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
it depends on whos teaching the taekwon-do

taekwon-do does not have pressure points in the official syllabus as handed down by choi hong hi (ITF) or through the WTF.

but as you have said yourself underdog any art can apply pressure points to there fightign style.

Top
#363057 - 02/11/08 10:09 PM Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Paulol]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
Forget about trying to find a reputable PP school. There may be one out there but it's mostly hype and self-ranked promoters. I'm sure you will be able to find a good traditional teacher that incorporates PP training.

Or you can find a good teacher of Shiatsu and also study Traditional Chinese Medicine. You'll learn the healing aspects. Then you can work on learning ways to attack these points to do harm.

Top
#363058 - 02/12/08 10:05 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: JAMJTX]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
Quote:

Forget about trying to find a reputable PP school. There may be one out there but it's mostly hype and self-ranked promoters. I'm sure you will be able to find a good traditional teacher that incorporates PP training.

Or you can find a good teacher of Shiatsu and also study Traditional Chinese Medicine. You'll learn the healing aspects. Then you can work on learning ways to attack these points to do harm.




healing points and manipulation are totally different to striking and using them for self defence.

also you do not need to learn as many as are used for healing to effect a good defence with pressure points.

Top
#363059 - 02/12/08 03:08 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Paulol]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I agree with Paulol 100%.

Even the angles of insertion for acupuncture needles are different from the angles of attack.

The healings that we are taught have value because they teach a person how to project energy, or whatever your politically correct jargon is, into the points, kind of like a correctly delivered punch penetrates. However, it isn't as involved as learning a whole healing art. If I want to study martial arts, I want martial arts. It is like if I want to know how to tell time, I don't want someone to tell me how to make a watch.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#363060 - 02/12/08 04:18 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: underdog]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
I didn;t say there was no difference. What I said was learn the points via the healing arts then learn how to attack them.

Most of the "pressure point" teachers in the USA are phonies. You can learn more just by buying a shiatsu book.

By studying a healing art you will not only be more likely to get reliable training, you will have a better overall understanding if what you are doing.

Top
#363061 - 02/13/08 12:26 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: JAMJTX]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
One more thing:
Learning these points through a healing art is also a safer and much more responsible way to to do it.

When you study Shiatsu and other healing arts you gain much more insite into what's actually happening to the body. You will also learn what types of "patients" to NOT use these techniques on.

No one that I know of teaching these "pressure point" is telling people "you should never do this to someone with high blood pressure", etc. Most of them have no real idea of what they are doing. They just looked at pictures and are telling thier students "poke here to knock him out". This is dangerous and irresponsible. Not to mention you don't need to pay them for this. Just go to Borders and buy the same book they did.

Top
#363062 - 02/13/08 03:52 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: JAMJTX]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
Quote:

I didn;t say there was no difference. What I said was learn the points via the healing arts then learn how to attack them.

Most of the "pressure point" teachers in the USA are phonies. You can learn more just by buying a shiatsu book.

By studying a healing art you will not only be more likely to get reliable training, you will have a better overall understanding if what you are doing.




on this post and your post straight afterwards, this is another misconception.

if i am hitting someone with pressure points to stop them attacking me, and they with the intent to do serious damage to me. then i'm not really worried about the after effects to them.

if you do train pp's like this for self defence then you are creating a lot of needless thought prior to you effecting your defence.

in the group i work with we work on the "just hit here" theory. which lets us open to striking which ever point presents itself in the course of our defence. once it is practical to do so. which covers the idea that we finish a fight as soon as we can either with force or intelligent retreat.

Top
#363063 - 02/13/08 04:18 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Paulol]
JAMJTX Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 585
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
The law says that you do need to worry about the after effect. If you kill someone, ignorance of the workings of the techniques that you used is probably not a valid defense.

There are a lot of people in jail who said things like "I didn't mean to kill him". If you are faced with deadly force then inurious or deadly force has been justified.

As stated earlier, the approach to studying these points from a healing aspect just makes a lot more sense.

Top
#363064 - 02/13/08 05:29 PM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: JAMJTX]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
Quote:

The law says that you do need to worry about the after effect. If you kill someone, ignorance of the workings of the techniques that you used is probably not a valid defense.

There are a lot of people in jail who said things like "I didn't mean to kill him". If you are faced with deadly force then inurious or deadly force has been justified.

As stated earlier, the approach to studying these points from a healing aspect just makes a lot more sense.




so if i end up knocking a person out with punches and kicks then i must first go to college to be an expert on treating trauma?

hmmm makes sense!

i know what physical responce a person will give when i strike certain points and i use that knowledge to effect my defence.

knowing which point will make him release his bladder will not help me defend myself.

in fact i'd love to be brought up in court for killing a person with pressure points! it would be some case and cause a few things to be brought out in the open.

Top
#363065 - 02/14/08 08:31 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Paulol]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Ed Lake, I believe, not 100% sure, and Steve Stewart, are two Kyusho people who command my respect. Both are educated in Acupuncture. Gavin King here studies shiatsu. Steve Stewart is actually Dr. Stewart now. I have no problem acknowledging that a knowledge of healing compliments the hurting aspect. Actually, in the program I am in, I am taught healing techniques. The logic is that healing will help teach me to fight better.

However, since at this point in life, learning to heal with acupuncture, or other art, is not going to become my life's work, I just want to concentrate on my Kyusho program and on developing my Kenpo based style (American-Te). With unlimited time and starting out early in life to master the martial arts, one would have the time. I have no problem conceeding that this slower extended more comprehensive approach would bring great results. It just isn't the best path for everyone. Pleased for you that you can pursue your studies in this way.

I don't know anyone in the "hit here" routine without attendance to the effects on the body. If such exist, and you say they do, I hope I don't meet them as their uke at a conference. I know that our system, developed by Evan Pantazi, attends to the medical quite a bit. There is an on-going medical study headed up by Dr. Sergio Espejo, on the effects of Kyusho on the body. Once a year, he invites lay students down to see some of the testing. I went a couple of years ago. I missed it this year. When their research is complete, they will publish what they have found. This is a fairly broad based endeavor. When they publish, it will truly be the book to own. It will be scientifically, reasearch based, peer reviewed study with no myths or tradition based claims without data to back it up.

In our program, we are taught to regard the effects on a perpetrator and cautioned about the legal ramifications of what damage you do. It has careful emphasis. Still, I think it is each person's responsibility to know the self defense laws in his/her own state, especially if you are teaching self defense. It makes a difference, in Massachusetts, for example, where I live, whether you are attacked by an uninvited person in your own home, or whether the person was invited in, or whether you are out on the street and the perpetrator is a stranger. However, I think this has less to do specifically with Kyusho as it does to ANY self defense, be it empty handed martial arts, gun arts, fighting back with whatever weaponable item you can reach in your living room, whatever.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#363066 - 02/14/08 09:25 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: underdog]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
You don't need to study a healing art in order to be able hit the body or study a martial art. The two are deeply connected but not prerequisites of each other. Although the most effective martial artists I've ever meet have also studied healing arts.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#363067 - 02/14/08 09:45 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Gavin]
Vennificus Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 206
Loc: The frozen realms of Kah-Nah-D...
to heal one must know what not to do,
to harm one knows what he can do that won't heal.
_________________________
Livestrong Johnnyboxcutter!!

Top
#363068 - 02/14/08 09:54 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Vennificus]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Very idealistic mate. I've worked with plenty of people who were capable of doing a hell a lot of damage to you and wouldn't even know how to administer CPR if their life depended on it. Likewise I've met Acupuncturists, Shiatsu practitioners and Reiki people who can't even comprehend the mindset required to knock someone out let alone actually do it. As I hinted the two are not prerequisites of each other.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#363069 - 02/14/08 10:08 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: underdog]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
underdog you have both confirmed and backed up my comments while presenting an counter to my comments

i have done some shiatsu work and would love to do more at some point (pun ) but as you say it can help in your understanding of kyusho but is not a required skill in order to affect a defence with kyusho jitsu.

again i do not think that kyusho jitsu has the exclusive rights to causing internal injuries? if you deliver a really hard punch or kick to the floating ribs they will break. do i need to be able to fix them afterwards to protect myself from the law?

if i were to fully follow through with a wrist lock throw i would break the joint. do i need to know how to form a cast to help the joint heal??

as regards to the law, you need to know the view your local laws take on attacks on the person and adhear to them. i don't think that any law is written in the world where you cannot attack a person in self defence without having prior knowledge of how to heal them afterwards.

i totally respect evan pantazi and nearly joined your group a number of years ago. but did'int in the end.

Top
#363070 - 02/14/08 10:23 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Paulol]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
It's funny, with me the more Shiatsu I do the less PP work I do in my martial arts. What I will say that Shiatsu has given me is a much deeper sensitivity when I touch a body. After a while you can simply look at a persons structure to see where they are carrying tension, it becomes very intuitive. I've found that the most competent and effective fighters have been those that have had continual dynamic exposure to contact with opponents. Taiji people who push hands, Judoka and Jujitsu players who wrestle, Boxers and Muy Thai people are amongst the toughest people to play with in the Martial Arts. I think this is due to the bodies ability to learn intuitively through physical contact with their partners. I strongly suspect this is why I've noticed huge skill gaps in those that practice healing arts and those that don't. I think its due to the amount of hands on time they get through direct human to human contact. This why I believe totally in the concept of 'aliveness' in training. PP people are good at hitting people coz they spend so much damn time hitting people. IMHO at least.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#363071 - 02/14/08 10:38 AM Re: Shiatsu and TCM [Re: Gavin]
Paulol Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 112
Quote:

It's funny, with me the more Shiatsu I do the less PP work I do in my martial arts. What I will say that Shiatsu has given me is a much deeper sensitivity when I touch a body. After a while you can simply look at a persons structure to see where they are carrying tension, it becomes very intuitive. I've found that the most competent and effective fighters have been those that have had continual dynamic exposure to contact with opponents. Taiji people who push hands, Judoka and Jujitsu players who wrestle, Boxers and Muy Thai people are amongst the toughest people to play with in the Martial Arts. I think this is due to the bodies ability to learn intuitively through physical contact with their partners. I strongly suspect this is why I've noticed huge skill gaps in those that practice healing arts and those that don't. I think its due to the amount of hands on time they get through direct human to human contact. This why I believe totally in the concept of 'aliveness' in training. PP people are good at hitting people coz they spend so much damn time hitting people. IMHO at least.




great point gavin!

if you are trying to practice a martial skill which requires combat with another human then you need to train with as many different types of human as you can.

i try to get my hands on as many people as i can as seminars and training groups either i teach or my instructor. also i try not to use my own students for demos as this again can give a false sense of reality to both the people training with me and myself!!



after a while i have noticed that some people react in different ways to attack either pp attacks or just punching and kicking. also that when someone is not affected with a point in one area they usually are sensitive in another predictable area, or they are hyper sensitive to joint locks etc...

being able to flow between responces to what is presented to you is only gained from drilling and semi-free sparring with increasing levels of resistance.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga