FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 45 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 12
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
TaekwonDoFan 2
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Iaido movements speed
by TooNice
04/14/14 01:47 PM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
Today at 11:35 AM
centerline concepts
by Dobbersky
07/18/14 06:14 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:38 AM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forget all that health stuff
by TaekwonDoFan
06/29/14 03:18 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35563 Topics
432450 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#362363 - 09/24/07 10:19 PM Leather, silk or cotton?
Borrek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
So it is "first iaito" time (which excites me much more than getting my first car ever did!) and I am faced with a decision on tsuka wrapping. My sensei prefers leather wrapped tsuka, so I am 99% certain that I will emulate this, but when I sent an e-mail with general questions to swordstore.com, Rick mentioned in passing that he would never ever choose leather.

I have pretty much made up my mind, but my curiosity has been piqued. What characteristics do you look for a tsukamaki to have and how do you think each option compares in those regards? One thing to keep in mind is that silk is generally $100 more than cotton, and leather adds roughly another $100-$150. I know this sounds silly but my hands are fairly calloused from weight lifting and I'm adding more from iaido, so I worry that I would snag and tear the silk after repeated use.

any thoughts?

Top
#362364 - 09/24/07 10:35 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: Borrek]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Good silk is pretty tough stuff---really tough.

I don't know enough about leather wrappings to be able to offer and opinion--have not used them, and I'd don't personally know anyone that does.

Which means nothing except I don't know enough about it to answer your question.

I'd go with whatever your teacher recommends.

You might ask this question over on:

www.swordforum.com

Might get some more answers there.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#362365 - 09/24/07 10:59 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Actually silk is considerably tougher than silk in my experience. After 10 years the silk on my iaito has taken on an almost leathery appearance as the oil from my hands has built up on it. Cotton on the other hand remains... hairy many years after it is wrapped. It never takes on the same smooth surface that leather has naturally and silk gains after a few months of steady workouts.

I'm not really sure why Rick is advising against leather. I know very little about it's long term durability. The only thing that comes to mind is that leather can stretch a little, but silk really doesn't. Not in the same way. I might be off base on that. Like I said. No first hand experience. I know some folks swear by it. I'm quite happy with silk.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#362366 - 09/25/07 10:19 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: Charles Mahan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5821
Loc: USA
Charles

Me too, I see the leather wrapping quite a bit now--but have never used it myself and I really don't know anyone that does.

No real reason for it that I know of--they just don't.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

Top
#362367 - 09/25/07 11:26 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: Charles Mahan]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Hello Charles, I too have (blue) silk and have no complaints. Although beautiful blue color that it once was now is fadding due to oils sweat etc. I contacted the fellow who made my sword and asked how to wash/clean the silk and he recommended that he re wrap it with fresh silk which is about $250. Right now I can deal with the fadded look..... Did you ever try cleaning your?
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

Top
#362368 - 09/25/07 01:48 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: schanne]
A.J. Bryant Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 98
Loc: Indianapolis, IN USA
I would stay away from cotton altogether unless it’s a question of finances. It fades fast and doesn’t stay as tight as other wraps.

I have used both silk and leather/suede over the years and each have their own feel. That’s really what it comes down to. Leather might last a little longer, but not by much. I would say that silk is probably your best all-around choice, but if you like the feel of leather, go with that (sensei has several swords you can try, BTW).

I actually prefer suede myself. I have it on my main iaito and a synthetic version called “tsunami” on one of my iai shinken. It has a grittier feel than either leather or silk but still maintains a certain “softness” as well.

Whatever you go with though, you have to keep it clean or it will get slippery and that’s the last thing you want with a 30-inch razor blade... I use a simple toothbrush and a little dish soap. Just scrub it lightly and towel dry, or use a hair dryer. In the winter, I even leave the sword over a vent with the heat on overnight.

Hope this helps.

BTW, Suino sensei’s leather wrap has lasted over 15 years I think. Not bad.
_________________________
Andrew Bryant Rishinkan Dojo Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu Iaido Dentokan Aiki Jujutsu

Top
#362369 - 09/25/07 03:48 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: cxt]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I have one with a leather wrap and have had no problems with it. I like the feel of it at the beginning, but yes, after a bit of use the silk is pretty close. The only thing I would warn is that if the leather wrap is done incorrectly it tends to stretch more often than the silk. (according to my instructor)
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#362370 - 09/25/07 07:05 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: JMWcorwin]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
My first two iaito were inexpensive ($300) with cotton wrappings. They frayed early on. This was cured easily and inexpensively with clear Krylon spray. Both had metal fatigue failure after @ 3 years of regular use.

My current iaito ($900) has lasted seven years with no sign of wear. The wrapping is silk. No discernible fraying, wear or slippage.

Top
#362371 - 09/26/07 05:47 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: A.J. Bryant]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

I would stay away from cotton altogether unless it’s a question of finances. It fades fast and doesn’t stay as tight as other wraps.




I disagree. Both my iaito are wrapped with cotton. One is 7-8 years old, been through 2 or 3 different pairs of hands and is very tight and smooth indeed. The other is newer but was a rewrap after the silk wrap started loosening a bit. The person who did the wrap (Fred Kay, for those who know him) suggested that cotton may keep a bit tighter than silk, if I recall.

At any rate cotton is a perfectly fine wrap. The one thing I wouldn't ever use is leather and perhaps suede, but that's just my personal preference.

EDIT: Charles, I don't know what you mean about cotton getting hairy. Mine is very smooth, so maybe the ones you've seen were a different type of cotton? Don't know, but I do recall a "hairy" tsuka I've seen, and that was a cotton wrap on a paul chen. Always assumed it was like that because it was a paul chen and not because it was cotton.


Edited by splice (09/26/07 05:50 AM)

Top
#362372 - 09/26/07 08:28 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: splice]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Most of my experience with cotton wraps have been with Swordstore models. Some from back when they were getting them from Igarashi-san, and some of the newer models as well. They all have little threads sticking out from the ito.

I think the moral of the story is that all 3 are in use by most of the iaito makers in Japan. If there was an inherent problem with any of the three, that wouldn't be true. You should be safe no matter which you choose.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

Top
#362373 - 09/26/07 09:52 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: Charles Mahan]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Could be the material itself. My oldest cotton wrap is Tozando, my newest iaito is from swordstore but I got it rewrapped.

Indeed, all three are in use and I think it's very much up to personal preference.

Top
#362374 - 09/26/07 09:56 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: Charles Mahan]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
Splice, I have seen those hairy situations on the cheaper Paul Chen swords. But like you, my cotton wrapping is still smooth and tight.... but my kashira is starting to come off... any suggestions?

I personally don't like leather because it tends to slip in my hand if I begin to sweat. But I do know others who swear by it.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

Top
#362375 - 09/26/07 10:54 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: fatguy]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
The kashira is starting to come off? You mean that the tsuka ito is coming undone or that the actual metal piece is somehow coming off? Because it's supposed to be tied rather securely by the wrap.

If the wrap is coming undone, there isn't much you can do as far as I know. You won't be able to retie it yourself, it should have been cut at just the length needed for the knot with nothing left to spare. Hard to redo the knot in that case.

I would personally get it rewrapped but you know your situation better than I do. Maybe the wrap is still tight and not likely to come undone? I don't know, but good luck.

Top
#362376 - 09/27/07 09:20 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: A.J. Bryant]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Thank You
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

Top
#362377 - 09/27/07 12:49 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: schanne]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
well.. the kashira is loose, and yes it is tied to the tsuka-ito so i guess it is the wrapping itself thats loose... how much does it cost to rewrap? is it possible to do it by yourself? does anyone know who rewraps tsuka-ito?
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

Top
#362378 - 09/27/07 01:20 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: fatguy]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
I suggest you ask around your dojo for suggestions. I know someone up here in Canada, but that would probably be too much trouble for you.

Rewrapping is something you can learn for yourself if you like, but it will take you many months of practice to get a nice, solid wrap. I wouldn't recommend trying to learn to save money.

A rewrap shouldn't be very expensive. About $100 total maybe? Of course the better the work the more expensive it will be. Fred Lohman charges $200 for a handle rewrap I believe.

If nothing else there is Thomas Buck at www.tsukamaki.net, and he's not so far away (Minnesota I believe). You would send the handle to him and then get it back in a month or two. Of course this supposes you can take your sword apart and put it back together again, which may not be so simple if it is shimmed and everything.

You should ask your sensei, I am sure he could give you good advice for this.

Top
#362379 - 09/27/07 03:28 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: fatguy]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Fred Lohman in Portland, OR does a great job on re wraps. Have a look and see what you come up with. I actually sent him the entire sword and got it back reworked. I was very pleased with it.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#362380 - 09/27/07 04:28 PM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: JMWcorwin]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Thomas Buck, which I mentioned above, did all the tsuka restoration work for Fred Lohman from '91 to about '96. Now that he's independent his price is very reasonable.

Fred Lohman and his company seem to do very good work, but the prices are a bit up there, at least in my opinion. I am sure it is worth it to those who are willing to pay for it.

Top
#362381 - 09/28/07 12:06 AM Re: Leather, silk or cotton? [Re: splice]
fatguy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 146
huh.. i forgot that I would have to take the tsuka off... I never got one of those kits with the little hammer thingy and all that jazz... even with it my sensei said if I do take my sword apart chances are ill loosen everything and have to spend some time with the shimmying... so I guess ill hold off until it gets really bad or I have the time to spend making sure everything is solid again.
_________________________
Saya no uchi de katsu

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Charles Mahan, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga