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#361754 - 10/27/07 01:59 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Can anyone say cheese?

I love all that, "well, first I'd chop off your head than break your arm" stuff!

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#361755 - 10/27/07 09:35 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: fileboy2002]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:

Can anyone say cheese?






Cheap shots at Ed Parker does more to belittle you then anything else.

Keep in mind you are watching early footage of a man who would one day become internationally known MA.

Sure the theatre of this might be a bit cheesy by todays standards, but thats no reason to make some sophomore insult.
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#361756 - 10/27/07 11:34 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: Kimo2007]
fileboy2002 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Here's another sophmore insult: although many of Kenpo's hand movements are fast, few seem to have much power behind them. What good does it do to flurry an aopponenet with punches if those punches don't land hard enough to disturb Shirley Temple's curls?

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#361757 - 10/28/07 12:03 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: fileboy2002]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Kimo, you give him too much credit. Sophomore is way too mature. 6th grade is more like it.

Fileboy, have you ever studied AKK? From those who have trained with him, I have heard that Ed Parker was very fast and very powerful. Yes, the art has mostly gone to crap these days, but there are a few good schools out there, and for someone who actually delves into the art, the fast strikes can be very powerful. Try insulting something you actually know about, before you insult an art and it's founder without basis.

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#361758 - 10/28/07 10:16 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: fileboy2002]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Here's another sophmore insult: although many of Kenpo's hand movements are fast, few seem to have much power behind them. What good does it do to flurry an aopponenet with punches if those punches don't land hard enough to disturb Shirley Temple's curls?






Dude, did you even read any of this thread at all? Did you look at the Paul Mills video? Surely you can't tell me that Ed Parker couldn't hit hard?

Here is some more video of Ed Parker to infuriate and titillate:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=7#Post15883635


Edited by MattJ (10/28/07 10:22 PM)
_________________________
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#361759 - 11/03/07 08:38 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Currently I'm of the opinion that all kenpo systems are the same. Kenpo is a set of concepts and philosiphies towards combat. In my opinion Mr. Parker did not create anything he just named what was already being used. In in some cases like the "founder" of Tae Kwon-Do Gen Choi Kwang, he was a bit eccentric with the terms he used.

From my experience with seeing and having the oppertunity to practice kenpo from styles such as AKK (Parker style), Shaolin kenpo (Castro style), Kosho ryu kenpo (Mitose style), kajukenbo, Cerio Kenpo I have come to see that the only difference is the tricks in which these styles emphasize. The moves are the same, all the same tools are being used, however, the tricks are performed differently.

From my own observation kenpo is a mid to close range system of combat. Capable of boxing from mid range and decent when it comes to close trapping range, however, because of the smothering and clinching many kenpo schools have added grappling, something which I believe was not there in the begining, something that AKK (post Parker)added. Kenpo is essential a striking art, only with the fusino of kajukenbo was it a full ranged art, much of the original kenpo was based in Christian doctrine as I understand Mitose became a very religious man before and particularly after his imprisonment.

I have asked this question before and matt has taken the time to answer. Can kenpo be used as an offensive art? Many if not all kenpo bunkai begins with a defensive block. Matt you answer was to remove the block and go from there. I have always found it difficult to comprehend that basic answer, because it just seemed so obvious however, extremely difficult to make work during training.

Having studied concepts in PFS/JKD/FMA I now see a huge gap missing in my kenpo training, which I believe is found in most other schools. The element of different ranges, as many know there are 4 different ranges of attack and traditional kenpo really only excels in 2 of those (mid and close).

Trying out your advice was a particularly painful thing for me, when applying the techniques with boxing gloves, I just could not get in fast enough or effective enough to pull off those multiple attacks against a boxing like attacker (my brother), let alone a kick boxer.

However, taking in the concepts of destructions and before during after principles of JKD I've begun to apply the very most basic tools of kenpo against a live opponent.

I am now capable of getting within range of using some of the "tricks" that one learns in a kenpo school. HOwever, once the clinch is applied i'm afraid kenpo is thrown out the window. At least for me....currently.
_________________________
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does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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#361760 - 11/17/07 12:56 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: TeK9]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

I have asked this question before and matt has taken the time to answer. Can kenpo be used as an offensive art? Many if not all kenpo bunkai begins with a defensive block. Matt you answer was to remove the block and go from there. I have always found it difficult to comprehend that basic answer, because it just seemed so obvious however, extremely difficult to make work during training.




http://www.ohanakenpo.com/Techniques.htm

Ed Parker on Techniques:

"I teach Kenpo, not for the sake of teaching the techniques, but for the principles involved in them. And even then, these principles must be altered to fit the individual.

The reason I give my techniques names is because there are certain sequences associated with these terms. If I told a student tomorrow that I was going to teach him a counter version to a double hand grab, it's not as meaningful as when I say I'm going to teach him ‘Parting Wings.’

You’ve got to know how to vary things. A lot of the techniques I’ve worked with, they’re ideas, they’re not rules. At any given time, any of my moves can change from defense to offense, offense to defense.

Martial artists, and Kenpo people especially, become so involved in doing the techniques exactly right in such and such amount of time, that they get caught in a pattern that they can’t break. That’s not what they’re for. Specific moves, specific techniques are based, like the ABC’s in the English language or standard football plays.

You have to have a point of reference and from there the combinations are endless and limited only by universal laws, laws that you can’t change."
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#361761 - 01/31/08 08:19 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Linking this thread here, about Mitose/Chow:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...5ee0df43ebba2ec
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#361762 - 01/31/08 10:36 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: TeK9]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I disagree Kenpo varies greatly based on the Instructor teaching the system. Kenpo can be as hard and deep stance as Shotokan, it can be High stance and flowing blocks with one punch stoping power like Shorin, it can be High stance with multiple open and close strikes like Kung-fu. It just depends on which base system they started and liked. What you see is your discription is people that mostly came from the Chow/Parker base and they differ, Master Sander's ABKF can look line Shorin rather then Am kenpo and he's Parker base, until he goes into his speed mode then C/P comes out him.

Most Mitose or Tracy Kenpo people vary from Shotokan looking moves and Katas to multiple strike Shorin they flow less then Parkers AMK.

As for difference in Soko Chow's system and Master Parker, Chows system is a method of old style of fighting, you do this because it works. Ed Parker orgainized his system with philosophies and technicail how,why it works, he took working Kenpo reasoned and explained why. Master Parker along with Bruce Lee was a free thinking totally modern Sensei that spoke of changes with time and people. He was not like Master Chow who if you questioned would show it WORKED meaning bust your a$$ or just say because Chow said so. Parkers forms are totally different then hard Kenpo that looks Shorin base.

As for General Choi doing the same as Parker you have to have a base and because we are limited by having 2 arms and 2 legs the techniques will not look that much different.

But you have to admit that TKD moves and stress totally different approaches then Shoto-Kan or Shorin-ryu or to be more on point, Tang-soo-do. Its argued by some that TKD maybe Korean orgin art? TSD by definition is not.


Edited by Neko456 (01/31/08 10:41 AM)
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#361763 - 02/07/08 08:26 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
No power in AKK? I had the honor of studying under one of Parker's early senior students for 3 years. Those in the know are surprised I never had to go to the hospital.
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