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#361724 - 09/25/07 08:46 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Having trained in AKK myself for sometime, I can tell you personally the strikes are powerful. They build upon the previous strike.

I have always looked at it like pounding a nail in a board. Each strike with the hammer is powerful but you don't rely on the one strike to put the nail through the board. Each strike is measured, to the same point, and builds on the previous impact. If everything goes as planned, you get the desired result. If you miss and the nail bends, you can still pound it into the wood with more strikes.

Pretty simple but logical philosophy. Don't depend on one strike to get the job done, especially when the target is resisting and moving.

Had my arm seriously hyper extended several times by people executing these "soft" strikes without realizing how much power they had in them. Don't assume that working out with a few stylists defines an art, especially if they are crap.

Butterfly has commented on some poor Ashihara videos that surfaced on here once or twice and going by those videos, I would not have had an interest in the style but after training with him personally (a great Ashihara stylist and technician) I would train in Ashihara at his dojo in a heartbeat if I could.

Anybody who doesn't train like they should can make the best art look like crap. To judge a style, find someone proficient, take a seminar or even a private lesson to truly understand the concepts and execution before attempting to broadcast to the world ideas that may not be completely based in fact.

Scottie
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#361725 - 09/25/07 11:49 AM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: RazorFoot]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I actually viewed that film clip w/ high hopes. When I lived in Pasadena, I spent a month @ Frank Trejo's place (Parker's original headquarters, I believe). Frank is a strong, quick guy but I saw the flurries as just that.

I hadn't been introduced to the idea of shock/impact until a few years ago & I never bought the "one-punch kill" concept because I'd been involved in too many real altercations (including inmates who don't give a $h!t). But something was missing...hmmm.

Years later, I was introduced to Steve Spry (I was invited to referee @ the L.B. Internationals) @ his original school on Beach Bvd. - next to the "gentleman's club". I was invited to a "cultural exchange" & came away disappointed despite their congeniality. When his videos started poping up on the local community access channels @ night, they became my late-night amusement (the techniques, & his hair).

OK, beyond a few mall demos & the like, I admit my exposure is limited so maybe my comments are BS...so be it. I can only compare what I know w/ what I know.

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#361726 - 09/25/07 12:01 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: hedkikr]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

When I lived in Pasadena, I spent a month @ Frank Trejo's place (Parker's original headquarters, I believe). Frank is a strong, quick guy but I saw the flurries as just that.




Huh. I guess everybody's different. I have attended seminars with Frank. He is a big guy that hits real hard. I certainly wouldn't want to get hit by one of his flurries, but I'm not a very big guy, either.
_________________________
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#361727 - 09/25/07 12:10 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I sparred and worked with with some Steve Sanders guys = (One of Master Parker Senior students) that were here while in the military. I was not so impressed with there 1 strike power which was adequate, but their footwork and angles along with their multiple striking these guys were awesome in a different way.

Far more complexed then the Tracy guys head by Roger Green an awesome one punch power strikers, with an awesome timing step.

But back to the Sanders guys I saw them time a spining backfist/hammer fist (this powerful guy was KO people with it)they'd enter the guys circle follow with a hail of punching until he hit the ground, waxing the bigger stronger power striker. No sweep, I like to sweep a spin move. All this can relate to street fighting, u miss anything and their behind you, raining strikes. Maybe I was impressed because they think the way I do, take the back less can hit you from his back. But they went about it differently.

Now thats off topic in that its not talking about striking power per say, but the angle plus the strikes and its good night Irene. These guy don't play tag they hit, Tracy or Parkers/Sanders group, both are Kenpo.


Edited by Neko456 (09/25/07 12:18 PM)
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#361728 - 09/25/07 12:49 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Frank Trejo used to box before AKK. Back then I thought he moved quickly for a big guy. I saw a photo of him recently & he's BALLOONED...pity.

Combinations are essential. But if not KO power, @ least stopping power (stun/hurt enough to stop their assault if even momentarily). Anything less is a waste of energy because in real life you'll miss more than you do in the dojo. That's why the automatic assumption that "Technique A" will lead to "B" which leads to "C" etc. isn't accurate. People move & fall. That's why 2-3 attacks per sequence is the most I'll teach. A SD scenario requires an "ala cart" mentality as opposed to a "banquet" mentality. You need to improvise rather than stick to a pre-set sequence.

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#361729 - 09/25/07 12:54 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: hedkikr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

A SD scenario requires an "ala cart" mentality as opposed to a "banquet" mentality. You need to improvise rather than stick to a pre-set sequence.




I agree with you there, and have found the same fault with a lot of AKK instruction. Many instructors have taken the SD techniques of AKK as "gospel", although that was never Mr Parker's intention (if you have read any of his stuff).

The techniques were never meant to be followed move-for-move. They are just "what-if?" guides - things you can do. But hardly anyone teaches it that way.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#361730 - 09/25/07 01:11 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Matt, the last instructor I talked to that took the techniques as gospel, I promptly headed for the door.

hedkikr, my old sifu would test on the base techniques, but he always taught us combinations and grafts, and had us do a lot of "what if" scenarios. That's also why there are multiple techniques to deal with the same attack. If you go for a-b-c but a doesn't work, you don't move on to b anyway, you change over to 1-2-3, where ever you need to go to get the job done. Also, a lot of techniques were full of overkill. If a-b-c is not enough, then you keep going until you finish the job. Hence the BB extensions. He even had us create our own extensions as well as our own techniques.

I have never had the honor of meeting Mr. Parker, but I have had the honor of training with Prof. Huk Planas. For a fat old guy, he could hit hard. And his saying was that there are no "minor" strikes in Kenpo, only major strikes and really major strikes. Each strike and block aims for a particular target. Even if you don't hit that target, make it count as much as possible, or it was a waste of energy.

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#361731 - 09/25/07 01:13 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
You make a good point I believe also that strikes should have different purpose, set up/daze and damage/take out. And like you stated you probably will miss more then you do in the dojo then in a real fight.

But not if you set it up, if you get the back and grab & hold every strike he's being pulled into. And you got the whole big old back not just the back of helmet in the street, hard to miss all that.

Unlike you I teach moves until finish, if he falls out of hand striking range we kick or go get, if falls into clinch knee/elbow/head butt range we do it, if he into sweep/throw/takewdown range u flow into that, you follow his movement he feeds your next move. I don't teach 2-3 moves what if he fades/blocks/slip these techniques. You back up and do 1-2-3 again? I'm asking because it so different then what I see in a real encounter.
I see a constant motion a flow of techniques until he makes his way out of range or he out of commission, or you need to back out. Then its 1-2-3 and move because you are playing a safe range fight. He has proven too skilled to be inside.

I'm just asking because I don't understand.
I do understand the Kenpo way of hitting until the guy is no longer a threat. Every blow I throw is not meant to KO, some are meant to just get a responce, like a kick to the grion, punch to the biscep or tip of the nose the next one Ko's. You got to set it up, wouldn't you agree?

Now I don't understand the slapping yourself theroy that does seem to be wasted motion, its been explained but I can't buy it as important I want everything hitting my oppoenet its the Goju way so you can see why I don't understand it. Its not my way/base.


Edited by Neko456 (09/25/07 01:21 PM)
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#361732 - 09/25/07 02:36 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: Neko456]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Yeah, I never bought any of the explanations for the slapping thing either.

But your method is not unlike mine. I stated that I prefer 2-3 attacks per sequence. What I meant was that instead of the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 (sequential) method, I teach something like (1-2-3)-(6-7)-(12-13-14) until threat ends. That's a lot different from 2-3 attacks stop & repeat. Keeping in mind variation in body position (his & yours), moving vs. backed into a wall, upright vs. fallen, etc. allows for this methodology.

That's actually the basis for kata - not a long choreographed fight against several opponents (the popular concept).

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#361733 - 09/25/07 04:43 PM Re: Vintage Ed Parker AKK videos [Re: hedkikr]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Essentially, that is what the AKK techniques are, mini kata.

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