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#361465 - 09/30/07 04:24 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I think development of power is also a personal thing. Meaning that the most effective way to develop short range power can vary depending on a person's physical and mental attributes. Due to this I think the first place we should start is asking who in this discussion has explosive short range power. Who here can drop opponents with striking in close using whatever method you use to develop fighting skill?
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#361466 - 09/30/07 07:04 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I think development of power is also a personal thing. Meaning that the most effective way to develop short range power can vary depending on a person's physical and mental attributes. Due to this I think the first place we should start is asking who in this discussion has explosive short range power. Who here can drop opponents with striking in close using whatever method you use to develop fighting skill?




If I caught any of my opponents clean during a full contact bout (or if I were attacked) while in close or used my elbows to bludgeon an opening then caught them.
It would be safe to say they would be going down. If I get caught on the chin with a realy hard shot then I am going down.
One of the reasons I try to protect my chin and my hands and arms are up and close.


My methods of training. What I am working on;

Weight training including heavy weights.

Drilling so there is as little telegraphing as I can get. (It seems to be getting less on good days)

Working on striking behind my closed gaurd. (ditto as above)

My chin down. (same)

Quickly going back to a gaurd after striking.(same)

Makiwari and heavy bag training bare knuckle .

Making sure my stance/ legs are strong and stable and the power is coming up from my legs/hips shoulders although sometimes it doesnt go as per planned. Still has chambering at time.

Realy working on getting angles. Thats the hard bit.

Still in the get it all as correct as I can stage at the moment.

Still working on stand up grappling/dirty boxing at close range.

Still trying to get information on rooting as per the internal arts.

Jude.


Edited by jude33 (09/30/07 07:35 PM)

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#361467 - 09/30/07 07:54 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
[quoteIf I caught any of my opponents clean during a full contact bout (or if I were attacked) while in close or used my elbows to bludgeon an opening then caught them.
It would be safe to say they would be going down. If I get caught on the chin with a realy hard shot then I am going down.




Ifs are good, however, anyone who practices martial arts can state the same ifs. However, I know all cannot because I have met many who couldn't and can't. So the question is not IF but rather of WHEN. I would like to know who knows they have good in close power because they have dropped people constently in close with a single technique. Not just one time, but consistently because that represents a technique that will work reliably due to developed skill and not blind luck. In addition I am also talking about body shots as well as head shots. I believe effective power applies to dropping opponents with both.
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#361468 - 09/30/07 08:37 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

[quoteIf I caught any of my opponents clean during a full contact bout (or if I were attacked) while in close or used my elbows to bludgeon an opening then caught them.
It would be safe to say they would be going down. If I get caught on the chin with a realy hard shot then I am going down.




Ifs are good, however, anyone who practices martial arts can state the same ifs. However, I know all cannot because I have met many who couldn't and can't. So the question is not IF but rather of WHEN. I would like to know who knows they have good in close power because they have dropped people constently in close with a single technique. Not just one time, but consistently because that represents a technique that will work reliably due to developed skill and not blind luck. In addition I am also talking about body shots as well as head shots. I believe effective power applies to dropping opponents with both.




HI Med.

Ok.

When during a full contact bout or if I were/when I was attacked and I connected in close then in most cases they went down but my experience is connecting in close against some one who is doing the same to me, it isnt easy.
Is it due to a limited developed skill or just blind luck?
More than likely both.
But there again in a few cases I went down.
Was what they did a developed skill?, me making mistakes? or blind luck?
More than likely all three.
Why? I dont know I am still working it out.

Regards the use of an aquired technique/ skill that constantly knocks people out in close? .
Answer
I dont know.I am no where near any kind of champion level with out that amount of fights.



So roughly that is me. Can I aks you about your methods Med?
How do you deal with power shots in close. And your opponents?

Jude


Edited by jude33 (09/30/07 09:04 PM)

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#361469 - 09/30/07 09:00 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
I wrote about the basics earlier in this thread. Is there more specific info you want me to state?
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#361470 - 09/30/07 09:24 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
jude33 Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Hip torque/koshi twisting, sinking or rising,




I understand the twisting part but the rising and sinking part? Some thing Im not to sure on.
Quote:


well developed base, forward thrust of hip/koshi/bodyweight, and relaxation are all key. However, I have learned one of the most important principles is also the way to develop whipping power. Yes strike from whatever position your hand is in, however, the key is that your hand follows your hip and not the other way around. Hips move hand stays until hips stop, then hand explodes out. Acutally, this is why chambered striking in jigotai(horse stance) is good. It really teaches this principle. Along with a few others. This is a way to develop explosive short range stopping power.




Ok that is the way you develop power. I try to get as much whipping power but sometimes its just pure bludgeoning. What gaurd do you use? Do you move around your opponent?
I try to get behind them or at least to their outside left/blind side side. Do you use trapping?

This could on but I suppose the specific question was of power generation. But wouldnt it all lead to the same thing?
Movement block strike hammer down the opponents left hand/arm getting to the blind side to strike with a left hook/palm heel/ left elbow to the face? Right hand to the left ribs?
Stomping to the knees.

Could go one.

Jude



Which techniques have you used on a live opponent?

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#361471 - 10/01/07 12:27 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
It seems you are discussing more how to close the distance and/or set up your opponent. For me I either use defense or attacking combined with footwork to close the distance. When I use defense I generally use elbow destructions and tai sabaki to deflect strikes and crash through my opponent's guard and clinch with him. I'll parry the first strike and use an elbow destruction on the second. However, my parrying hand follows the strike it deflected back to its source to establish a good position. As I establish a dominant clinch position I like to soften him up with leg/knee techniques to the thigh/legs. Sometimes you can put a guy down with this and sometimes not, however, it is sufficient distraction/damaging to to use hand techniques in close to set up a takedown or to shift to a 90 degree angle to my opponent for better strikes or knees to the face. However, in close in the clinch I find that my knee strikes are my most effective weapons for KOs. I use my elbows when entering or exiting the clinch. In order to utilize the full power of my hand techniques I need to utilize my body weight in my waza. Therefore, if I am trying to KO a guy with my fists/open hands I don't like to get too tied up. Therefore, I use them in a similar way to that of my elbow striking in that I use them to cause damage as I am entering into close range. However, I am not necessarily entering to clinch but just to strike.

A lot of people protect their heads well. Therefore I like to strike to the head first to use their defense against them. Its pretty simple really. When striking you should change striking levels. Go high, low, high or high, high, low, etc. As you are striking you are also closing distance. Think the straight and over hand strikes of pinan/fyukyugata kata as closing distance and the short range strikes of Naihanchi once inside. If you don't put your opponent down with the strikes you will hopefully damange them enough to either finish them off in the clinch, get the takedown/throw, or reestablish the free striking position to either flee or continue the attack. As far as my guard I use the kamae at the opening of rohai. Hands high the level of my face, elbows in, and hands open. If I am feeling cocky I use the Philly Shell, but that's more street fighting stuff I got growing up in St. Louis which I adapted to my karate fighting/sparring when I began taking karate as an adolescent. However, it comes in handy at times as a change of pace.

As for rising and sinking its not all that complex. When you throw body shots from an upright position you don't aim your fist down, you drop your center. It can act as a method of slipping a strike. By dropping as you strike you are using gravity to add body weight to your waza without necessarily moving forward, but you can move forward as you do. If you are already in a position where your knees are bent then you can simply extend them as you strike. This is rising power. This is the extra simple explaination. There is a little more going on, but that is the gist of it. In Shorin Ryu you learn these lessons from day one in basics and kata training.

As far as live opponents I have used body shots such as straight punches, hooks/shovel hooks, knee strikes to the head, body, outside of thigh, uppercuts to the face, open hand palm strikes to the head and face, hooks to the temple and jaw, and maybe a few others I can't think of right now all as KO shots in live full contact sparring. By KO I mean the opponent was on the ground in pain holding the part of their anatomy that I hit or doubled over in pain. Again, this is the close in stuff I used, not the longer range stuff. In training I continue on after I put my opponent down, but not full contact because there is not point in injuring training partners further in training.
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#361472 - 10/01/07 09:54 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Nice post, med. Thanks for the detail. Refreshing to see a good technical read here.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#361473 - 10/01/07 10:27 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Thanks Med.
Thought provoking.
I will read, re-read, breakdown and analise what you have written.

Jude.

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#361474 - 02/23/08 09:20 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
renato Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 3
Sink your hips. Use your DanTian, your center of gravity three fingers below your navel, and let the power spiral from your DanTian. It's all in the waist. It moves through your hips to spiral down your chosen ligament.

It has the power of a dog shaking himself off when his wet. Loose and involving your entire body, each joint twisting, directing your force.

FaJin!

Tai Chi makes your realise that the human body is the perfect killing machine. Sounds sick but it's true. Thank Hashem that nobody knows about it!

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