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#361445 - 09/23/07 04:36 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Lots of approaches, but physical dead-weight, by which I mean uninhibited, unrestrained techniques. Tension be it structural muscular, or mental which has "somatic effect" kills short range power.

Learning to ~unlock the muscles~ that have no merit to the desired technique. Ummmmmngh, why are your shoulders so tightly raised? Whay are her hands clenched tightly in fists for this techqnique? Remove the unhelpful contraction, the tension.

Hatha Yoga/Meditation to give me awareness of my body, its tight spots. Time is mandatory. Many I cannot change on my own. For those areas, my lovely wife, or a professional massage therapist, a PT seem quite beneficial.

It is not the relaxation unto itself which provide the power, but the ability to IN SPITE of my tensions, their presence that I can let go anyway.

The heavy bag tells me if I am relaxed. Is it bending or swinging? If it swings means I am not generating short range power correctly.

Jeff

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#361446 - 09/23/07 05:48 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Ed_Morris]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Steve Morris's methods are worth checking out for short range power.Its one of his specialitys.
From what iv learnt there a number of ways that can help indivualy or together depending on the situation.

Like has been mentioned...the startle reflex can give speed and power.Jumping the shot in.Or what he calls emergency minset.The intent and emotion exploding in your head in that instant.This helps stretch the muscles spindles.Its better to use these spindles than the golgi tendon,which is normaly used if you think too much and will act as an inhibiter to stop your muscles hurting.
Now i dont understand fully.Still learing,lol.Best to check it out.

Also the violent use of the head.Post the head over the lead foot.Think this is like the rooting thats been mentioned.This means ,amongst other things,you use the mucsles going diagonaly rather than vertical,as there is more going diagonaly from right shoulder to left hip.Use clawing shots ratherthan straight ones.
I remember him say its like your heads a boulder on the edge of a cliff and you topple it off the cliff at the moment you strike.
Theres more.Bit hard to explain.Worth checking out.
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#361447 - 09/24/07 01:31 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Ronin1966]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Hello Medulant:

Don't forget standard horse stance also guarantees ~no haphazard~ aspects.. standardized to eliminate the random additions/subtractions rather than "...ok, from this position, here is one method by which to unlock this, that, and this muscle group..." and produce power at short range.

Repetition is crucial to engrain & vital to explore, examine.

Jeff




Hi Jeff.

Please dont take this the wrong way but I cant understand a single sentence you have written?

Quote:


It is not the relaxation unto itself which provide the power, but the ability to IN SPITE of my tensions, their presence that I can let go anyway.

The heavy bag tells me if I am relaxed. Is it bending or swinging? If it swings means I am not generating short range power correctly.






I can understand this one. I can see your point on muscle relaxation being required in certain cases. But if a person is being confronted by an aggressive potential/attacker it would be difficult to remain relaxed.

I think in most cases the adrenalin dump/overload would determine the state of a persons mind therefore their muscles?.

Jude




ED.Morris

Quote:


think if you actually trained it, you'd know that a short range strike isn't about 'keeping your arm' anywhere - it's generating a decent hit from whrerever your hand/arm may be at the time - without chambering and without time consuming hip action or any kind of wind-up.

c'mon folks, you can do better than this. please note in the opening post, that the prerequisite to answering is that you have actually trained it and know what I'm talking about.





Your earlier explanation, are you saying none use of the hip?
If so I have noticed a lot of boxers not using their hips or rather very little use of the hip. I believe part of goju training uses no hip rotation where their feet are rooted to the floor? Is that what you were refering to?
If so what are your thoughts?

Jude


Edited by jude33 (09/24/07 01:51 AM)

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#361448 - 09/24/07 09:03 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Jude:

I am sorry.

Using a standard stance (eg horse/kiba), removes ALL the haphazard parts and makes identifying, exploring what generates the power of a given technique, any technique very clear.

If as a group, or in a group you do a technique haphazardly
if we don't standardize as many things as humanly possible... figuring out, learning how to increase that power (short range) is more difficult.

Jeff

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#361449 - 09/24/07 09:18 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Jude:

<<But if a person is being confronted by an aggressive potential/attacker it would be difficult to remain relaxed.

Thats why we practice it, no ? Practice so relaxation is not a problem in the face of intense conflict.

<<I think in most cases the adrenalin dump/overload would determine the state of a persons mind therefore their muscles?.

Which is why one practices the adrenaline dump katas, intense practice to learn how to not be overwhelmed by these sensations in the least. Use them, befriend them... explore how to use them.

Hips, no hips how to generate power depends on our structure and how the muscles are used in same. I do not want to be hit by a 20 year Bagwa Practitioner, nor a 20 year JKA person either. Both have a style/methods of power generation...

Ouch

Jeff

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#361450 - 09/25/07 05:32 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Ronin1966]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

Hello Jude:

<<But if a person is being confronted by an aggressive potential/attacker it would be difficult to remain relaxed.

Thats why we practice it, no ? Practice so relaxation is not a problem in the face of intense conflict.

<<I think in most cases the adrenalin dump/overload would determine the state of a persons mind therefore their muscles?.

Which is why one practices the adrenaline dump katas, intense practice to learn how to not be overwhelmed by these sensations in the least. Use them, befriend them... explore how to use them.

Hips, no hips how to generate power depends on our structure and how the muscles are used in same. I do not want to be hit by a 20 year Bagwa Practitioner, nor a 20 year JKA person either. Both have a style/methods of power generation...

Ouch

Jeff




Thanks Jeff.
Very clear, realistic and for me all very thought provoking. The kata you refer to is this when a specific kata is used to test body conditioning?

Jude

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#361451 - 09/25/07 10:39 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Jude:

Thank you... for the compliment. Ill tell my wife, "...hey honey I'm not always a complete baffoon..."

Some certainly use it that way, which I personally find misguided/dangerous. I refuse to believe the purpose of such drills/practices were to make us human heavy bags-makiwara. (ie Some folks can hit hard, dangerously hard.) I propose such was simply a bonus, a by-product these kata. Sanchin kata specifically seems the "template" how to identify systems-ways to strengthen without tangible effort, yet produce very real power regardless

I find no sense to train to take blows rather than learning training to avoid them. I will get hit, but to use the practice to do so (take hits with impunity) repeatedly... seems unwise... IMHV.

But Chojun Miyagi, Higaonna, I will never be. Kyan... perhaps but not today I fear...

Jeff

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#361452 - 09/25/07 11:26 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Ed_Morris]
Xaith Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 101
Loc: Indiana
Heavy bag, over and over and over. Sometimes full power, sometimes really slow to go over all the body mechanics and tweak what needs to be fixed. I'll use a concrete wall to check the structure of the strike, which can also be an isometric exercise.

My teacher emphasizes using the weight transfer for force, but you have to be careful to keep it from becoming a push. Naturally, the weight transfer isn't the only part of a good short range strike, but it provides more power than the other components.

Another aspect, although this is a slightly different technique, is the wind-up. I know you said that you were talking about striking from wherever your arm happened to be, but for this version, it is assumed that you are unlikely to have assumed a truly static position in a fight, that is to say, your arm is moving and if you have been checked or blocked (or if you have just checked an opponent's strike) it probably isn't moving in just the right direction to your target. So, it's still striking from whereever your arm happens to be, but also from whatever inertia your arm happens to have at the moment. Now, I said "wind-up" but it is really really small and fast. You still aren't really withdrawing your arm, it's just a tiny, quick, circular movement that redirects your existing inertia to where you want to go. This is quite a bit harder to develop, and you have to really get a good feel for it, but when you get it, it helps a lot. I'm horrible, a classic example of knowing what I'm supposed to do, but not having the control and feel to actually do it consistently, although tai chi helped quite a bit.

I know that may be a different technique, but it's still a short range power strike, it just assumes that your arm is in motion before attempting the strike, and that it is better to redirect the inertia than to try to halt it and restart it in a different direction.

I think this is the longest post I've written. I hope it is not too convoluted or rambling and I hope we're talking about the same thing.

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#361453 - 09/28/07 12:45 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
metempsychosis Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 12
I believe the uppercut is the most effective short range blow, assuming you are in very close range. For example when I box I keep my hands just under eye level, peekaboo style. When I practice uppercuts my fists only travel a few inches upwards into the uppercut bag, but has most power of any of my other punches because my whole body rises/twists into it.
edit-reading the last post makes another point. There's no windup with the uppercut if done correctly. Just straight upward force from neutral fist position.


Edited by metempsychosis (09/28/07 12:51 AM)

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#361454 - 09/28/07 05:28 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: matxtx]
ashe_higgs Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 593
Loc: phoenix
Quote:


Like has been mentioned...the startle reflex can give speed and power.Jumping the shot in.Or what he calls emergency minset.The intent and emotion exploding in your head in that instant.This helps stretch the muscles spindles.Its better to use these spindles than the golgi tendon,which is normaly used if you think too much and will act as an inhibiter to stop your muscles hurting.




WTF?

you don't use the "golgi tendon". there is no golgi tendon. there is a golgi tendon organ, but you can't consciously control or use it, it's part of the sympathetic nervous system, a reflex organ.
so you're only half right.

wiki
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