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#361435 - 09/19/07 02:47 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: butterfly]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I'm aware of the role relaxation plays but haven't developed (practiced) the technique because I'm not sure of the intricacies. I don't want to get good @ doing it wrong.

As stated before, I've seen B.L.'s 1"-punch & it looks like a push to me (yes, a fast push but a push none the less).

Can anyone post a vid of a REAL 1"-punch (not just high school guys playing @ it). Maybe you could make a vid of yourself & post it on YouTube.

Thanks

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#361436 - 09/19/07 02:52 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: hedkikr]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Question:

To perform the technique, the fist is 1" from the target (hense the name). How far "into" the target does the fist move?

If it's 2-3 inches, then I can believe it. If it's 4-6" (or more), I consider it a push. (refer to my comments on the "snapping punch" thread).

Thanks again

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#361437 - 09/19/07 05:32 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: hedkikr]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
i dont really know how to explain the power generation of hakka arts that usually focus around short ranged power.

Best I can explain it is that when someone jumps out and scares you, your body jumps with a lot of force. That body jumping generates a lot of power, if someone where to hold you down you'd still probably be able to move with that jumping power. Hakka arts (at least the Southern Praying Mantis that I'm currently practicing) want to translate that power generation into a voluntary thing so that you can create lots of power with small distance.

How do you train?
Well lots of partnered excercises to develop strength for the arm when it is extended away from the body. Chest caved in and shoulders pushed forward. Repeated partnered drills where all of the hand motions are outside and not chambered. Though you really have to engrave the fact that your hands have to be outside to fight like this, otherwise they will start to come back in.

The first thing would be to start doing all techniques with your hands outside and keeping them there.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#361438 - 09/19/07 10:18 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: butterfly]
Totality Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I use a couple of methods for close striking.

If I am alone I will put my forehead against my heavy bag and keep it there while I work hooks, shovel hooks, straight punches, elbows, shoulders, etc...

If I have a training partner I will have them put on a good quality chest protector and some focus mitts. I will strike my way in and then 'stick' with them as they try loosing me, all the while striking from close range. If for some reason they get away, we regroup and I repeat the processes trying to 'stick' with them longer each time.

I never chamber my punches as this takes time, but allow proper body sculpting and structure to have my hands where they need to be.

IMHO

Thanks
_________________________
"You will fight the way you train"!

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#361439 - 09/20/07 07:28 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Totality]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

I will put my forehead against my heavy bag and keep it there while I work hooks, shovel hooks, straight punches, elbows, shoulders, etc...




Good stuff. I do the same thing.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#361440 - 09/20/07 03:03 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: MattJ]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Train relaxed, integrated whole body power (as Ashe said) from big to small.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#361441 - 09/20/07 04:51 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Fisherman]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I follow that idea and practice to be total relaxation and timing, you stand in front of the bag or pad, relaxed/calm mind (I haven't got this down yet totally) with body relaxed as mentioned the legs torque the hips jerk and the punch or strike explodes into the bag (all these are slight motions as if twichting).Body mechanics needs to be instinctive, your focus is whatever depth your mind projects, but we are talking 2-6 inches not feet or through the bag. If done right the bag doesn't swing much, it bends at point of impact and lifts and the chain pops.

If you tighten up you loose this power and it becomes a push or thrust strike, if your mechanics are wrong your wrist will bend, if your timings and focus is off you will miss solid contact and burn/scrape your knuckles.

Practically speaking its good training bc this is a great intercepting strike (I'm not talking about blocking I'm saying you see his shoulder move and go) its relaxed, comes from nowhere and theres no big motion to give it away. With power that can end it right then and there.

Sorry I TMI (too much information) again. Everybody else were being concise. I beg your pardon. By the way breathing helps in this technique also.


Edited by Neko456 (09/20/07 05:00 PM)
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DBAckerson

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#361442 - 09/22/07 04:51 AM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: Neko456]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:

I follow that idea and practice to be total relaxation and timing, you stand in front of the bag or pad, relaxed/calm mind (I haven't got this down yet totally) with body relaxed as mentioned the legs torque the hips jerk and the punch or strike explodes into the bag (all these are slight motions as if twichting).Body mechanics needs to be instinctive, your focus is whatever depth your mind projects, but we are talking 2-6 inches not feet or through the bag. If done right the bag doesn't swing much, it bends at point of impact and lifts and the chain pops.

If you tighten up you loose this power and it becomes a push or thrust strike, if your mechanics are wrong your wrist will bend, if your timings and focus is off you will miss solid contact and burn/scrape your knuckles.

Practically speaking its good training bc this is a great intercepting strike (I'm not talking about blocking I'm saying you see his shoulder move and go) its relaxed, comes from nowhere and theres no big motion to give it away. With power that can end it right then and there.

Sorry I TMI (too much information) again. Everybody else were being concise. I beg your pardon. By the way breathing helps in this technique also.




Hi Neko.

Personaly I cant see the use of a one inch punch except for demonstrations but I suppose if I met someone who could use it I might change my mind. If I was in a fight and had no chance to leave the fight then at that range I would be either using head butts or elbow/forearms but even then it would be difficult to get no chambering at all.

Maybe a head butt could be trained with minimum/no chambering? For in close work I use weight training combined with technique work ( the correct muscle group eg hook/uppercut off my lats,hips and not just my shoulders)

I believe the internal arts use rooting for power generation. I think this is delivering strikes while the weight is on that side of the body but Im not to sure on that one.

Im experimenting a bit but I could do with some one who could demonstrate the technique.

Jude

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#361443 - 09/22/07 04:49 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: jude33]
Totality Offline
Member

Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hi Jude,

'Rooting' would be the base of my structure. Now when I say 'structure' I am talking about complete connectivity, from the ground up. I don't use the term relax', but rather softening, sealing and connecting.

I believe the 'one inch punch' in which Bruce Lee demonstrated was done with an added push to over exaggerate the technique and physics involved. When done correctly (which no doubt Bruce could do) the person being hit would absorb the entire impact with zero rebound coming back to the striker and this in turn would cause internal injuries such as bleeding and broken bones. The one inch punch if shown and not felt, doesn't look like much. Even on the heavy bag, the bag may pop-up and down, but not move. Pretty boring...lol

Punching with the same force from 'one inch' away to 2 feet away means that the practitioner understands the physics behind 'their' structure and body connectivity.

I have been on the receiving end of the 'one inch' punch while holding a kicking shield and trust me it hurt...not to mention I didn't move an inch.

I don't think this type of power can be explained properly on a forum or in a book. If you can find someone who really knows how to execute it then I would stick close till you feel it yourself.

IMHO
Thanks,
_________________________
"You will fight the way you train"!

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#361444 - 09/23/07 04:21 PM Re: methods for developing short-range power [Re: medulanet]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Medulant:

Don't forget standard horse stance also guarantees ~no haphazard~ aspects.. standardized to eliminate the random additions/subtractions rather than "...ok, from this position, here is one method by which to unlock this, that, and this muscle group..." and produce power at short range.

Repetition is crucial to engrain & vital to explore, examine.

Jeff

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