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#360948 - 09/18/07 10:46 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
'knocking across the room' is a push kick....which is a different impact than making someone's body hum like a struck tuning fork.

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#360949 - 09/19/07 02:04 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: wristtwister]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
I've watched The B.L. 1" Punch over & over & it looks like a push to me.

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#360950 - 09/19/07 09:53 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
hedikikr - its more then a push its a snap from the floor through his fist, Tai-chi, Pakua and Hsing-I among others have a punch done a little further away thats can fold or sending you tumbling backwards. Don't look at his fist look at his feet and waist and look at the guy getting punched face. Sometimes wide eye as if shocked or wind knock out of him. The Kenpo guy in the BL demo tried to asorb it, it dropped him in the chair arms down to his side, face in a stupor. Lee was 145lb note the BB was 180-200lbs, nothing but nets.

I have felt the Hsing-I close punch below the navel very unpleasant and disrupting, I wish I could do that. I can't quite get it. My Sensei developed it while the visiting Sifu was there, 20 yrs ago. Not only the body but the mind must relax, then exploded.

How practical it is in a fight, you are in elbow range why punch? But a little further out its a hell of a snap punuch.


Edited by Neko456 (09/19/07 09:58 AM)
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#360951 - 09/19/07 12:45 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Neko456]
Umbra_777 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 148
I find this idea very interesting as I have noticed that when I work the heavy bag most of my techniques seem to more run into the heavy bag as opposed to striking the bag. I have also noticed that when the more advanced belts at my dojo punch it has a distinct crispness and power even when working from horse stance where you can not get much hip torque.

Do you have any techniques, drills, or considerations you use to develop this snap in your strikes?

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#360952 - 09/19/07 09:16 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Umbra_777]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Really the basic training of techniques is were you develop it (say in Karate/Gung-fu/Silat.. non gloved arts), working at throwing the punch/strikes with the body relaxed then at the moment of contact lock your entire body. After contact is made relax immediately, withdrawing the strike as fast as you struck after the amount of contact you desire.

There use to be a fire drill or candle drill we'd do, you are to exstinqush the flame with the snap/vaccumm of the strike or punch. If you stayed there too long you got burned, if you stopped too far away you'd never take out the flame. So without touching though you had to get close at 1st, the flame was put out.

You use to learn by pain back then, some got the hair on their wrist or hand burnted, when hard headed. Pending your base you maybe already on the way.

That was just one way to test & develop such a strike there are many, but it starts by planting the seed in basic training hard in the non gloved arts. Its there in the gloved art but rarely used most times in the counter inside strikes.


Edited by Neko456 (09/19/07 09:20 PM)

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#360953 - 09/19/07 09:32 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Neko456]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
The technique from Taiji for "snap" punches is "fa jing". Erle Montaigue has some good "free downloads" on this kind of punching on his Taijiworld.com site.
Here's an example... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHt0JYfgVGY

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#360954 - 09/19/07 10:51 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Neko456]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
the candle trick is easy to do. and that would have to be one relatively sloooow punch to actually get burned or hair cinged.

the trick isn't a very good training aide or measure, since it's possible to do by just using arm snap.

actually hitting a bag is better since you get feedback from the impact of whether or not it connected or not. sometimes it doesn't even feel that solid, when it actually is - thats why a partner holding an impact pad is best of all. the feedback from the person of how it felt to them (was the shock penetrating or was the force pushed, etc..) is the advantage (and main point) of impact training when focusing on power generation as an isolated drill.


btw, the Montaigue vid doesn't demonstrate penetrating shock, IMO. it simply shows a jab with open hand. still good plus with all that weight behind him, it probably hurts - but it doesn't have 'the principle'.

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#360955 - 09/20/07 12:56 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
yeah...what he said.

But as I browsed around, I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6KxA6H4aUg&mode=related&search=

nothing to do w/ the thread but always a hot topic

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#360956 - 09/20/07 03:35 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: hedkikr]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
WW Earls pretty sharp.

All those are good examples but probably too advance for OP's needs and in Hedkikrs example over mines too with the no touch stuff again. Practice your basic and the techniques can be developed to a powerful application. The Hands on viberating techniques are possible but the hands off seem to only work on the Masters students. I've trained in my little fish bowl for 25+ years I can't figure or believe the hands off control of Chi is possible. I believe its a lot like Voodoo or Hypnotist, its real and works if the attacker believes its possible.

Practice your basics and you will get there. Video are good but they usually don't tell how to get there. Not that they aren't valid but you spend too much time wonder how, instead of practicing.


Edited by Neko456 (09/20/07 03:54 AM)
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#360957 - 09/20/07 03:42 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
The candle is to develope the snap, it is a simple exercise. I believe he was talking about how to start developing this technique that was just one example.

As for people getting burned and U analyzing that the punch must be slow or over penterated, like a thrust and held out, as many beginners do. You are correct and thats what I was trying to say, that they were using the wrong method of delievery, who knows what they are think, maybe that this too easy.

As fo bag work he mentioned that his seniors at his dojo hit the bag using the snap technique, he wanted to know how to begin. Don't U read the OP post?

As I mentioned there are numerous way to develope the technique.


Edited by Neko456 (09/20/07 03:52 AM)
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