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#360928 - 09/14/07 09:32 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Another way to train on the bag is to make it jump instead of swing. Hard to do, but that requires a lot of snap.

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#360929 - 09/14/07 09:35 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
echo?

bushi, brian ...read my post again

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#360930 - 09/14/07 10:58 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I missed that line, Ed. Sorry about that. And I was all excited that after the last several weeks, I finally had something to post in the Karate forum.

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#360931 - 09/14/07 10:59 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Beg to differ with you Ed...
F=MA is a force formula... the "delta t" or "change in time" determines the frequency of the force delivery (I called it "residence time" for people unfamiliar with mechanical engineering) but the "impulse" is the same as the "vibration" I mentioned.

The force delivery can be changed by surface area of delivery (fist shapes = contact surfaces) speed of the technique (punches or kicks) and the amount of "body mass" that is applied . There is also a factor in there for "base" (stance) as the "structure" of the body is essentially mechanical.

Another factor in force delivery is the response of the target...hard things break... softer things tend to absorb the force and distribute it based on their structure... i.e. a punch to the head vs. a punch to the rib cage vs. a punch to the stomach. I could go on and on, with the differing types of force response, but it's a lengthy discussion involving the body structure, striking angles, and contacted surfaces, including joint strikes, strikes to boney surfaces, strikes to "soft parts", vital point strikes... the list goes on and on.

Essentially, however, there are "snap" techniques (shocking power) and "thrusting" techniques (driving power), and they have different methods and mechanics... like there are formula 1 cars and dump trucks. They're both "cars" (for the sake of argument) but they are completely different, even though they work similarly... they have engines, tires, transmissions, etc. and require a driver. You would not, however, mistake either one for the other... as in "snap" vs. "thrusting".

The "swinging bag" test would do well for thrust kicks, but not so much for snap kicks. Their force delivery is also dependent on vibration and frequency, so an "absorber" like a heavy bag wouldn't really be a good measure of snap kicks. They sure do work well on a solar plexus, or a "shell vest", however... , or a "soft tissue" area of the body with an "exposed nerve area".

There are a lot of factors that can be called into play in analyzing the differences, but "snap" vs "thrusting" is ultimately dependent on what you're trying to do, and how you're trying to do it.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#360932 - 09/14/07 11:02 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Did I miss something.

I just find it difficult when people take something that seems rather simple to me and they explain it out in an essay.

Much better in person...do this!!
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#360933 - 09/14/07 11:53 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Quote:

Beg to differ with you Ed...



which part do you want me to clear up for you?

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#360934 - 09/14/07 11:55 PM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: BrianS]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
yeah, I've been chatty. I gotta learn to pare the posts down. I like your style - to the point then STFU. lol

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#360935 - 09/15/07 12:24 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: Ed_Morris]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Truthfully, I'm just jealous because I don't have the technical ability to scientifically explain things in detail like you do.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#360936 - 09/15/07 01:05 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: BrianS]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Interesting if nothing else. Thanks guys! I would probably explain differently and a littlr bit more in easier terms, but I see your points and they made me think.

The functional problem is that folk don't necessarily understand the personal mechanics as they feel and do them to put the techniques to use with the correct type of snapping motion. Or rather, to get the mechanics down to use them with a powerful snapping action.

But nice read!!!!

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#360937 - 09/15/07 08:06 AM Re: Are the snap technique of old Karate useless? [Re: butterfly]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
In this case, "its the singer... and the song". You have to have the skills, and then make the appropriate use of them... hence, a "learning curve". Their "judicious use" are decisions made almost instantly depending on how your kumite is going and the opening that presents itself.

Wordy... but "hit'em when you can with the right technique"...

Just remember... it's never wrong to hit your opponent...

'cept sometimes...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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