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#360770 - 09/14/07 01:18 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: butterfly]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
As a beginner in MA, PP seems interesting. But the pragmatic side of me notes that it 'took 3 tries' for a little girl find the right spot on a compliant person.

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#360771 - 09/14/07 01:20 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: butterfly]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
thats because they are secret and too dangerous....which is why they were teaching it to a child.

underdog:
- is there a video of the no-touch version? would there be any difference in result? perhaps the same result: buckle leg as if in pain then take a nap.

- can the same technique work on a stranger? one who is not trained in power-napping on command?

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#360772 - 09/14/07 02:33 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: Ed_Morris]
underdog Offline
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Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I can not do KOs at work obviously, I'm a psychiatric nurse. For the most part, I work with drug addicts and alcoholics who also have a mental illness. I use PP to assist tuite and escape from grabs against fully resisting patients: fortunately not that often. They work. There isn't really that much secret to this stuff. It is like anything else. Train it. You could say the same about tuite or grappling. Sure, if you have a fully resisting opponent and you are trying to grapple or work a tuite maneuver on 1-2 lessons, your technque won't work. As long as my PP study continues to help me, I will continue to train it along with my basic style, which is American-Te, a local Kempo style.

I don't have clips of no-touch available for me to link. I do not do or train them. They have no combat value as far as I can tell at this time.

At my age, I only want to train stuff that will make me able to defend myself against real attack. I have no interest in competition or higher order skills with no combat value. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is a matter of some indifference to me. I just thought the clip was really cute because she got the guy by surprise before he was ready for it. He wasn't expecting her to get it when she did. He was done before the cue for her to go ahead and try it. Every style has some good kid/beginner clips. I just liked the clip because it made me laugh. I didn't figure it would convince anyone. I wasn't even thinking about that. I thought some other people would enjoy a laugh too.

PP are incorporated already into other styles and teaching. It is less a matter of if they are there, as to the vocabulary and degree of attention. In my first martial arts experience, TKD, our school kumite had pressure points built into the techniques. Sometimes Sabum told us they were pressure points and sometimes he didn't but he'd say "press here it makes the arm move" or hit here it hurts". It was not a pressure point school affiliated with any well known pressure point advocate. It was just International TKD.

I don't even know why I am again defending pressure points. Do you guys make the moderators of the other topic threads defend their styles too? Why don't you just ask administration to cut this forum? I don't care if you use PP or not. Why is it so important to all of you that I give them up? Lighten up and laugh. It was a cute clip not a political statement.
_________________________
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#360773 - 09/14/07 03:12 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
NOt speaking for anyone else, but I didn't intend to make you defend them in my post. I was just asking if you knew of any studies done to test the techniques' effectiveness.

I want to believe. If it works I would want to learn it. Just wondering if anyone had done that kind of study to find out how much is MA technique and how much is pre conditioned response to these stimuli. If you believe with everything you have that I can knock you out by looking at you, your brain has a funny way of making those things happen.

Maybe the title "Cute video clip" wouldn't have drawn as much argument as "Must see". For cuteness, sure it is a good clip. I kinda took the post as more of a "See this really works, you have to watch" kind of thing.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#360774 - 09/14/07 03:30 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: JMWcorwin]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
If you believe with everything you have that I can knock you out by looking at you, your brain has a funny way of making those things happen.





That is a rediculous proposition. You didn't get that from the clip. You didn't get that from me. I don't know how this thread went so far astray. I've spent far more time on it than I ever intended. It isn't worth it. I'm done with it.





Edited by underdog (09/14/07 03:37 PM)

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#360775 - 09/14/07 03:36 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
You know, it could be worse. People could ignore you, and the PP forum would be as dead as the Zen forum. At least folks have an interest in the topic...albeit a challenging one.

Sucks to be ignored.

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#360776 - 09/14/07 03:38 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Quote:

Lighten up and laugh.


Good point. I'll take your advice.

ok...here is another cute no-touch knockout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffahKQjsGLo

BWWAAAHA-HAHAaaaah..ah..

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#360777 - 09/14/07 03:41 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Many apologies. Trying to throw water on the fire and aparently I threw gasoline. My mistake.


Nothing from Hapkido, just psychology. Convince a person that something is hot and it's been proven that cold water can leave a burn on a person who truly believed it was hot. Your brain can make thought reality. That's all. You know, mind over matter. Cancer patients undergoing chemo have been documented at times to start vomitting on sight of the hospital or a nurse from the hospital. The brain is relating the hospital and the nurse to the nausea. Not an argument just an analogy made about human psychology.

So again, sorry if I poured salt in an open wound.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#360778 - 09/14/07 03:44 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: JMWcorwin]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
You know...I was just discussing this idea, of the brain 'seeing' something, with a friend last night. At one point, I recall the knife/shower scene in 'Psycho' had red blood. She had the same memory. Only...it was a totally B&W movie. Our brains 'colored' that scene. Now, not knowing anything about PP...when I see this clip, I have my own personal filters that are being applied. I don't know what anyone sees, but I did view the clip with the understanding that it would be cute. But with a history of being attacked...I didn't view it that way. I was looking for efficacy. Sorry.

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#360779 - 09/14/07 04:15 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Lighten up and laugh. It was a cute clip not a political statement.




It's not a cute clip imo, its installing a dangerous sense of security in a 10 year old girl who might now think that she has the power to disable an attacking male. Children are innocent souls who will believe what they see and do. If they have a large male falling over with a slight tap they may believe it. They then might be inclined to engage an attacker rather than running...that bothers me! Misinformation in this case could have serious consequences.

I'm not asking you to defend the clip at all, but posting it as a "must see clip" as an example of how easy kyusho is...blah blah is the intention that this thread was started. And for the record this is not a personal attack, I'm attacking the issue, please don't take it personally...if you don't like people debating the content you post, then don't post it. This is not a light hearted subject for me, this is the education of children for life skills.
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www.SHIKON.COM
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