FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 29 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bartfast, ZapEm, AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc
22906 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 10
AndyLA 5
cxt 3
futsaowingchun 3
VDJ 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Recent Posts
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
Yesterday at 05:22 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
The Karate punch
by Dobbersky
08/12/14 05:14 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Dobbersky
08/11/14 05:03 AM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
A post for those who might become martial artists.
by AndyLA
08/06/14 07:25 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
Forum Stats
22906 Members
36 Forums
35570 Topics
432472 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#360760 - 09/13/07 06:02 PM Must see clip
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I usually don't link from one forum to another but this is a "must see clip". I believe in Kyusho training obviously, I moderate the PP forum. This clip probably shows better than anything else could how knowing precisely where to hit can enhance your art.

You have to see this soon or the clip will be gone because Master Pantazi changes them often.

http://kyusho.com/clip.htm
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#360761 - 09/13/07 06:13 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Saw the clip. I've been kneed in that spot and struck in places by people much harder than that. Why haven't I been "knocked out" in much the same way as the person in the clip was? Was it because the girl expressed her chi and my partners/opponents haven't?

I'm just trying to see how a little girls knee strike with really NOTHING on it just makes the guy go limp basically. I know I've been kneed much harder and wasn't knocked out.

Explain?

Top
#360762 - 09/13/07 06:44 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: JKogas]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Looking at the clip, I think he "helped her out" on the knee strike AFTER she got it right. He held the pose for her. The big surprise was the KO. I think she was shown what to do but hit him before the instructors were ready to "help her". I think that was what the laughter was.

It took her three tries to get the Sp 11 point to their satisfaction but she surprised them by getting the St 5 shot right away before they could remind her how to do it.


Edited by underdog (09/13/07 06:46 PM)
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#360763 - 09/13/07 07:59 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I was wondering if they've ever done a demo along these lines with the uke not being someone trained in kyusho? So, the new person being taught is striking someone who also has not developed any possible ingrained responses to being struck this way? Even better, a trained MAist who trains a differnt style and maybe even doesn't believe in PP KO's?

I'm not saying I don't buy it. But, I don't buy it as sound evidence without some more control studies. Have her do the technique on a Kyusho person, a non MA person, a firm non believer, and maybe a bunch from each category and see what happens. All with the uke's being kept isolated from the rest of the seminar or demo. You know, scientific process?

I'd just be interested in the results. And I would think the Kyusho people would be also if want to silence the disbelievers.

Maybe this has already been asked a thousand times. If so, I apologize. I only ask because I have taken my techniques and tried them on all of the above, so have my instructors. What works on most people most of the time stays. What doesn't work more often than it works, is dropped or redesigned so it does work more accross the board. Twist any man's or woman's wrist this way for long enough and far enough,,, it breaks. Who knew? Tried and true. Tested and confirmed.
_________________________
There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

Top
#360764 - 09/13/07 09:28 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: JMWcorwin]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I agree with your comments JMW.

Another things this engrains is false confidence. Should this little girl actually believe she can do this in the outside world if attacked by a large man?

I have done pressure point study myself. I KNOW that the ko's are real, I've felt them and done them even when sparring, but size, technique, and other factors come into play.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




Top
#360765 - 09/13/07 09:56 PM Re: Must see clip [Re: BrianS]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Of course other factors come into play. This kid is a white belt on one of her first days in the dojo and she is 10 years old. Nobody sees it as anything other than that. No one is suggesting that she can realistically defend herself against him. That wasn't the purpose of the demo. What she demonstrated was that with minimal instruction, she could get the desired effect from her strikes even on a big guy.

When I train in other places, I try a few Kyusho techniques on people who don't train it. I get just as good a result as I get with the people in my own school. I look forward to opportunities to do that because since they don't know what I am looking for, they can't be overly helpful. I'm going to budo camp next weekend in Nebraska. The host is a Kempo guy who does Kyusho, but there will be other instructors there who do not and people from other schools that do not train Kyusho. I do a Kempo style. I'll get a chance to train other people's Aikido and Jo and other things I don't normally do and to practice on others too. I've done this before and it makes for a great weekend.

As for kids defending themselves against adult perpetrators, we have "kyusho kids" in my school. They are the best kids in different ranks and they train Kyusho in extra classes. They are taught how to apply them and defend against adults. We had them do a demonstration last weekend when we had our camp. We had Kyusho people from different styles at our camp. They tried to "abduct" the kids. The kids had to get away before the adult could drag them a certain distance. In most cases the kids got free. It was good because they got to see the intensity. One kid cried but she was OK after the first attack. It surprised her. She got away on her second attempt and pretty quickly too. But these kids weren't white belts on their first day. Some have been training martial arts for 4-5 years and the Kyusho for at least a year.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

Top
#360766 - 09/14/07 10:46 AM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
This is not the way to get people to buy into PP's. For fear of offending anyone I'll probably back off, but having studied PP striking I never bought into these sort of K.O's and I have never seen a staunch non-believer go out. These demo's from a combat perspective are utterly pointless, both energetically and practically. Why don't Kyusho people spend more time developing practical realistic demonstrations. I have seen a LOT of demo's and none have ever been done under realistic conditions against resisting opponents. I've trained with people who are supposedly RBSD people doing PP's and under "alive" conditions not one discernible PP attack worked. These people always blag "this stuff is too dangerous" so they work it at unrealistic speeds that doesn't train skilled reflex level responses. Instead of skilled responses I've seen panicked gross motor actions along the same lines as an untrained person when these people are put through the meat grinder.

A question, how comes the worlds leading reality based practitioners aren't doing this sort of stuff? Why isn't Geoff Thompson, Matt Thornton, Peter Constantine, Steve Morris, Richard Dimitri, etc, etc, etc...studying this?

It was seeing the worlds supposedly top PP people doing demo's like this that finally nailed the coffin lid down on my PP journey...sorry but this is only a must see demo if you are arguing against PP's
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#360767 - 09/14/07 11:17 AM Re: Must see clip [Re: underdog]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Gav -

Although the video is no longer there, I really liked the demo done in this thread. Not totally resistant, but much more realistic, IMHO.

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...ue#Post15885049
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#360768 - 09/14/07 11:41 AM Re: Must see clip [Re: MattJ]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Yeah that was a better one and was representative of the way me and James used to work them on each other at the time. Trouble is I removed all of the video clips from my CA site (I'll ask James if he still has a copy) as our training is totally different now and they really didn't represent the direction I'm now going. I'm moving into a new gym next month so I'm trying to get some new clips done then.

What me an James found was that the points I based my point of the week threads on were reliable and could be hit fairly easily with power under stress...and James did whack me a few times. I very very rarely even mention PP's now, can't actually remember the last time I did to be honest, what I do now is put people in dynamic situations and let them find ways out and then give more options. Like this morning I was doing a private lesson and got the guy to work strikes on me being in a closed guard. Done it with me tying his hands up so he was forced to use other tools like the elbow and head and then putting him in different positions. Then I flipped him over showed some more options and refined target areas and then we jumped on the ground and pound bag to really develop some power into his shots. Its amazing if you put someone in a dynamic intuitive environment they will naturally develop to hitting sensitive targets under the right guidance.....and more often than not its hitting a PP.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#360769 - 09/14/07 11:48 AM Re: Must see clip [Re: Gavin]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I did not see the video Gavin was showing, but have to agree with his and Corwin's posts. You have to do this double blind and, if the stuff really works in environments where you would actually have to pull this off, then you would be seeing these things done in cage matches and taught elsewhere in application intense environments.... and they're not.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga