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#359815 - 09/06/07 12:03 AM 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido?
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Does Aikido have/train the concept of pre-emptive attack when incoming attack is eminent? If so, could you explain some of the techniques/concepts/principles (in Aikido terms) you do or know as drills....thanks, just curious!

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#359816 - 09/07/07 08:39 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
It's actually beyond sen sen no sen.

Stan Pranin explains it (better than I can)...
Quote:

A traditional explanation of strategies in a Japanese martial arts context often involves a discussion of three levels of combat initiative: “go no sen,” “sen,” and “sensen no sen.” These strategies are defined as follows: “Go no sen,” meaning “late attack” involves a defensive or counter movement in response to an attack; “sen,” a defensive initiative launched simultaneously with the attack of the opponent; and “sensen no sen,” an initiative launched in anticipation of an attack where the opponent is fully committed to his attack and thus psychologically beyond the point of no return. The latter strategy is generally considered to be the highest level in the classical martial arts scenario.

The Founder’s concept of aiki strategy goes far beyond the dimension of psycho-physical confrontation. In an interview conducted in 1957, he expresses the concept in these words:

“It is not a question of either ‘sensen no sen’ or ‘sen no sen.’ If I were to try to verbalize it I would say that you control your opponent without trying to control him. That is, the state of continuous victory. There isn’t any question of winning over or losing to an opponent. In this sense, there is no opponent in aikido. Even if you have an opponent, he becomes a part of you, a partner you control only.”




Full article here:
http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=600

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#359817 - 09/09/07 05:25 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
thanks eyrie. In your opinion, is it a different strategy/concept from 'irimi'?

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#359818 - 09/09/07 08:28 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Is what a different strategy/concept? Are you asking if irimi = preemptive attack?

There is no "attack" (or "defense") in aikido. Just like there is no "opponent" in aikido. If there is no "opponent", wherefore the need for attack (preemptive or otherwise), or defense???

BTW, irimi is like reaching out to embrace an old friend.

So, I guess the answer is no, it's not the same thing.

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#359819 - 09/09/07 09:25 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
lol...thanks.

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#359820 - 09/09/07 09:32 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
yup... like Mr Miyagi say... "karate not for fighting"...
Aikido not for fighting.

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#359821 - 09/10/07 06:20 AM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: eyrie]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
... another esoteric misdirection... ... no, redirection...

Quote:

"karate not for fighting"...


Must be why it was called "the dance of death"...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#359822 - 09/10/07 07:15 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: wristtwister]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia


The problem is... I am comfortable with the paradox.

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#359823 - 09/10/07 07:46 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: eyrie]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina

Me too... I was just havin' fun...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#359824 - 09/10/07 09:10 PM Re: 'Sen Sen no Sen' in Aikido? [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
I'm still 'processing' eyrie's second post.

maybe he was hoping it would put me in an infinate loop and I'd implode. lol

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