FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 28 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
AndyLA 5
Dobbersky 5
Ed_Morris 4
ergees 3
futsaowingchun 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Yesterday at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#359730 - 09/05/07 01:27 PM No beginning and no end
Ads Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 37
I was caught in a debate today at work, "god vs science".

Eventually we hit a stale mate when we got to the big bang. My arguement was that if this was the beginning of it all, what caused the big bang? And what caused whatever caused the big bang etc etc.

My friend then said "why does there have to a beginning, why cant something just be.

And so, my question...how can something exist without having a beginning or an end?

Top
#359731 - 09/05/07 02:55 PM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: Ads]
shadowkahn Offline
anti-stupid crusader

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 234
well if you read the bible you discover that it's one of the things God knows and might tell you when you die.

If you read about quantum physics you discover that the old line about matter/energy can't be created or destroyed is false. Matter is in fact created all the time. Particles boil up from the nothingness, and then annihilate again. There's a theory that everything we see is due to a (or some) particle(s) appearing, and then failing to annihilate.

There's another theory that time is a closed loop and therefore the universe doesn't actually have a beginning. Of course, this theory fails to explain how the loop got there
_________________________
"Belt mean no need rope hold up pants" - Mr. Miyagi, RIP.

Top
#359732 - 09/05/07 09:01 PM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: Ads]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
...instead of thinking in terms of linear time, try to imagine non-linear time.

about no begin and no end, try this: a strip of regular paper always has two sides right? not necessarily.

take a long strip of paper by both ends and 1/2 twist one end. then put and hold the two ends together with one hand. with the other hand, trace your finger along the surface, following the curves while never losing contact with the surface. your finger will end up where it started....which proves paper can have 1 side - just depends how you look at it.

Top
#359733 - 09/06/07 02:01 AM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: Ads]
jude33 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1539
Quote:



And so, my question...how can something exist without having a beginning or an end?




From my studies the big bang is a theory (guess).
It isnt provable. It seems a good reason to sell a lot of merchandise and pay certain people big saleries.I think this is the kind of question where no answer exists like why are we here?

From my studies it seems a lot of physicists(science) believe God(religion) exists. I suppose that would limit debates that dont realy have answers which is where your friends comments comes in.

Jude

Top
#359734 - 09/06/07 02:09 AM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: Ads]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Quote:

I was caught in a debate today at work, "god vs science".

Eventually we hit a stale mate when we got to the big bang. My arguement was that if this was the beginning of it all, what caused the big bang? And what caused whatever caused the big bang etc etc.

My friend then said "why does there have to a beginning, why cant something just be.

And so, my question...how can something exist without having a beginning or an end?



Interesting enough, there's evidence that the big bang wasn't the beginning and that time existed before it.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a beginning or end. Many would say that being born is the beginning and dieing is the end, however what is there to say that is correct?

Before the baby is the fetus.
Before the fetus is the egg.
Before the egg is the sperm.
Before the sperm is the germ cell.
Before the germ cell is the primordial germ cell.

Eventually going all the way back to energy. However, if energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed, then this would mean that the energy that supposedly started this lengthy process came from something else. Whatever that something else is, it was created from energy that came from another thing, and so on.

When we die, our bodies decompose by means of bacteria, insects, etcetera. However, I'll use insects as an example. The insects convert our body's matter into energy for them to use, then the insect is eventually eaten. Eventually the thing that ate the insect is eaten, and so on.

Top
#359735 - 09/06/07 09:45 AM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: MastaFighta]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
The only answer to this question, and the God debate for that matter. The ONLY correct answer, is that we just don't know. We simply cannot decide 100% one way or the other because there is always evidence to the contrary.
What is difficult for humans to understand however, is that before the big bang, there was no time, since time and space are so tightly woven together. There was also no space. It wasn't as if the universe exploded into this big empty black space, it created the space and the time, very strange but proven by physics. So there was nothing before the big bang, but ony as far as we know. The truth is that humans only have a very small amount of knowledge when it comes to these questions, so to answer decisively one way or the other is probably foolish.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

Top
#359736 - 09/06/07 11:52 AM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: jkdwarrior]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Excellent post, jkdwarrior. That is my understanding, too.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#359737 - 09/06/07 03:12 PM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: MattJ]
Ads Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 37
"If you read about quantum physics you discover that the old line about matter/energy can't be created or destroyed is false. Matter is in fact created all the time. Particles boil up from the nothingness, and then annihilate again. There's a theory that everything we see is due to a (or some) particle(s) appearing, and then failing to annihilate."

Wheres the proof of this statement. Ive done a bit of googling and found very little to support this, although not being much of a physicist its hard to find an answer when the question is so vague.

Also, if energy can be created and destroyed, how could be be related to MA. If energy can be destroyed, can we somehow perform this act. Sounds a bit sci-fi but so does no touch KO's and some people find PP's hard to believe.

Top
#359738 - 09/06/07 03:40 PM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: shadowkahn]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Quote:

If you read about quantum physics you discover that the old line about matter/energy can't be created or destroyed is false. Matter is in fact created all the time. Particles boil up from the nothingness, and then annihilate again. There's a theory that everything we see is due to a (or some) particle(s) appearing, and then failing to annihilate.



Give and explain one instance in which matter is destroyed. In addition, give and explain one instance in which matter is created from absolutely nothing.

As for the "old line", "matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed", that is only part of it. The part you're missing is, "it can however, change form".

Top
#359739 - 09/06/07 03:45 PM Re: No beginning and no end [Re: Ads]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Wheres the proof of this statement. Ive done a bit of googling and found very little to support this, although not being much of a physicist its hard to find an answer when the question is so vague.




Read up on the Heisenberg uncertainty principle -

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-uncertainty/

While this does not strictly address the concept of spontaneous matter/energy production, it is related. It is an accepted fact in the Quantum physics world that matter/energy can appear and disappear at random. Although the more complex the system in question, the less likely it is significant.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga