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#359459 - 09/03/07 06:43 PM My no touch thesis
dazzacarmichael Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 4
Sorry Roseanne for not coming on sooner.
I am the originator of the article mentioned in another section....and there is only the hypno way in my opinion... the problem is there are two groups of people perpetrating these no-touches
1) those who know the score and do it anyway for a fast buck.
2) those who learnt a procedure from their masters and follow that procedure and truely believe they are doing what they say.... and yes I would put a great gentleman previously mentioned in that category.

The only reason why I referred to it as the Hypno way was so i wouldn't get kicked off the kyushospace forum.

If yo don't believe this way will work try it.... but don't tell your students....
I have a great deal of other susceptibility methods and KO methods that can be added to this basic framework.
At the end of the day as a very senior master in a pressure point organisation told me when I challenged them with my model...' It teaches masters good seminar teaching skills' or words to that effect. I know what Roseanne believe and I respect those beliefs, I just don't agree with them....but I still respect them and the passion with which she holds them and her dedication to discovering the truth behind them, and her dedication in training, which I hope I have at her age.
all the best
Darren

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#359460 - 09/03/07 06:59 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: dazzacarmichael]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
It was a great article - ironically, you could probably make more money writting a book debunking NTKO than supporting it!

Thanks also for clearing the NTKO 'dycotomy' question up....saying/beleiving there are 2-types of NTKO (fake vs real) is perhaps the protection of belief mechanism kicking in. It's a hard thing to come to grips with when someone you look up to and admire turns out to be propegating a myth/con. You have guts for confronting it and coming out with it. "the truth sets you free". good job man. let me know if you ever publish, I'll be first in line to read your stuff.

now it's crystal clear why the other thread was locked down...I'm glad it didn't turn out to be an abuse of mod power.


take care,
-Ed

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#359461 - 09/03/07 07:07 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: dazzacarmichael]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
btw, for the readers, here is the article authored by the originator of this thread:
http://www.kyushospace.com/forum.aspx?id_forum=3&id_category=5&id_topic=125
also:
http://shikon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1920


on the more techical side I do have questions.

1. What are your thought on Ideomotor effects? in your opinion, as they relate to NTKO's?

2. Do you support extrapolating your same findings for any no touch claims? such as 'no touch Ki/Chi', 'no touch healing', or any form of telekinisis?

thanks.

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#359462 - 09/03/07 08:13 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: Ed_Morris]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Thanks Daz. I know there are many here who would appreciate the opportunity to discuss your ideas. Thanks also for the bail out. If I ever get to UK I'll look you up, Renshi Hulse and Gavin King.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#359463 - 09/03/07 09:12 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: dazzacarmichael]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Darren, thanks for the gutsy article.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#359464 - 09/04/07 02:42 AM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: dazzacarmichael]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hi Darren,

Thank you very much for your article and clarification of your position. I found it hard to see that you were trying to separate out real from fake. You post clarifies the article perfectly. Hat's off sir, the article is obviously the result of a lot of hard work and research....both of which have been extremely well articulated!

Roseanne, if you are ever in the UK it would be an absolute pleasure to hook up with you and compare idea's!

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#359465 - 09/04/07 12:15 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

1. What are your thought on Ideomotor effects? in your opinion, as they relate to NTKO's?




Ed, please don't start blaming everything you can't explain on the "ideomotor" response. There's no more scientific evidence of that phenomenon than there is of "chi"... it's just another theory and buzzword you found while we were on that other thread...



_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#359466 - 09/04/07 01:11 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: Gavin]
dazzacarmichael Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 4

Ed.
Ideomotor effects are used by Qi masters to show 'the mind moves the qi, and the qi can move the hanging object'. I saw that done 20 years ago by a now jiujutsu grandmaster based in the UK. The ideomotor effect is suggestion if you can get someone to do it yo can get them to drop...as long as you shine it up with Qi blarney.
all the Best
darren
as for extrapolation of my work to qi effects such as the long distance punch, and the feeling of ki. Yes there is a connection, the long distance punch requires a higher level of 'Rapport' than the NTKO which mainly requires high levels of suggestion. What I mean by Rapport is mirroring body language and breathing rate synchronisation. The feeling of another persons ki is mostly down to suggestion but also largely down to the feeler actually being aware of temperature changes, that ordinarily they ignore on a day to day basis.

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#359467 - 09/04/07 01:39 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: dazzacarmichael]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Thanks Darren, that does make sense and fits alot of other things/claims we've heard thru the years on these boards.

funny thing though, they hardly ever put up video and NEVER pursue the Randi million dollar challenge you mentioned.

They'll take teen's and midlife crisis people's money from a seminar, but have too many moral principles to collect the million from a scientist?

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#359468 - 09/04/07 03:08 PM Re: My no touch thesis [Re: Ed_Morris]
dazzacarmichael Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 4
Ed... why risk loosing a fortune over a lifetime by trying to gain a small fortune just once.
average seminar fee $250 average seminar number 60, that is $15000 a seminar minus lets say at most $3000 for expenses and that a lot of expenses $12000. How many seminars a year? averaging between 10 for some masters to 45 for others thats earnings a year of $120000 to 5400000 so between 9 years and less than 2 years a master with the right act can make a million and as the no-touch master can be doing it into their eighties that might be 40 years of teaching so if seminar fees were to stay the same for the next 40 years a master could make between 4.5 million dollars and over 20 million... why risk it for the Randi test for only one million. OOOh and how many masters or instructors for that matter, do you know that declare tax on seminar earnings, so tats all clear profit for most of them. This is why so many of these people do not want anyone to question the golden-goose that is no-touch.
all the best darren

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